Hyflux

[SpaceX]

Thanks. Sometimes we just don’t know what we don’t know. Some we learn in class room, some we learn from books, some we learnt from others, some we learnt from mistakes...although the last one is a painful process. Just don’t make the mistake beyond control...


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[BRT]

Karl Marx, coupons are not halted as of now. Where u hear info?

Anyway , today they just increase the tariffs again citing higher cost of production  

From my perspective , I feel the following questions have to be asked.Looking at the consultative papers at EMA website,

1) why allow such bonds to public in 2012( I can't remember exactly) ?

2) this isn't a single company that is facing difficulty. Many of the gencos ,in the many consultative papers have feedbacks that the regulated price set is too low, so if hyflux bankrupts , I wonder what's the implication given that it is not market forces at work here.

3)if u read the link provided by yeokiwi above, it SEEMS ( I didn't read too deeply) ,the gencos are played out when they have invested so much building because the price set then, were ok to make a profit , but when most of them are built, the regulated price was reduced , causing them difficulties , but they had already committed.

So back to point 1, if this is not market forces at play , why allow this bond to be retailed to mom and pop and their retirement nest egg??????????

Pls correct any of what I say above if it's untrue. And I will delete it of untrue.

your point 2 continues to puzzle me. based on some interview with olivia, she seems to think that the generation companies are suffer across the board (collectively penned some letter to EMA or something of the like). at the same time, sembcorp seems to be doing fine (or well), based on their statements on sg operations. i'll just lift some phrases:

"better operating performance from Singapore and India operations"
"Singapore operations was also the largest contributor to the Utilities business’ net profit before exceptional items"
"Singapore operations continued to perform well, mitigating the weak performance of our second thermal power plant in India"

sembcorp is one of the gencos right? sure they're definitely more diversified but still a bit strnage to me.

http://www.sembcorp.com/ar/ar2017/assets...Review.pdf
http://www.sembcorp.com/ar/ar2017/assets...Review.pdf

[sgdividends]

Go to
https://www.ema.gov.sg/Licensees_Electri...racts.aspx

Olivia said correctly.

Read the links under review of LRMC and vesting contract level.

Look at what the gencos feedback.

[donmihaihai]

Tuas Spring as a power generator may not attract much attention, but as a desalination plant, it has its value as a strategic asset for the Singapore government.  I doubt the replacement cost for a new desalination plant today is significantly lower than Hyflux's cost.  Optimistically, never underestimate our government's willingness to pay to maintain national sovereignty over water availability and water self-sufficiency..... of course, I am biased becos I really hate to see Hyflux/Olivia Lum goes down.

Assets will be around. Owner of assets can be changed.

[Nebula]

Karl Marx, coupons are not halted as of now. Where u hear info?

Anyway , today they just increase the tariffs again citing higher cost of production  

From my perspective , I feel the following questions have to be asked.Looking at the consultative papers at EMA website,

1) why allow such bonds to public in 2012( I can't remember exactly) ?

2) this isn't a single company that is facing difficulty. Many of the gencos ,in the many consultative papers have feedbacks that the regulated price set is too low, so if hyflux bankrupts , I wonder what's the implication given that it is not market forces at work here.

3)if u read the link provided by yeokiwi above, it SEEMS ( I didn't read too deeply) ,the gencos are played out when they have invested so much building because the price set then, were ok to make a profit , but when most of them are built, the regulated price was reduced , causing them difficulties , but they had already committed.

So back to point 1, if this is not market forces at play , why allow this bond to be retailed to mom and pop and their retirement nest egg??????????

Pls correct any of what I say above if it's untrue. And I will delete it of untrue.

your point 2 continues to puzzle me. based on some interview with olivia, she seems to think that the generation companies are suffer across the board (collectively penned some letter to EMA or something of the like). at the same time, sembcorp seems to be doing fine (or well), based on their statements on sg operations. i'll just lift some phrases:

"better operating performance from Singapore and India operations"
"Singapore operations was also the largest contributor to the Utilities business’ net profit before exceptional items"
"Singapore operations continued to perform well, mitigating the weak performance of our second thermal power plant in India"

sembcorp is one of the gencos right? sure they're definitely more diversified but still a bit strnage to me.

http://www.sembcorp.com/ar/ar2017/assets...Review.pdf
http://www.sembcorp.com/ar/ar2017/assets...Review.pdf

If you look at the first paragraph on page 50, it says "our singapore operations did well despite a tough power market"

[sgdividends]

Ok yes I read semb corp.
I'm not sure then why many of the gencos are saying negative things in the link I sent then...

l

[sgdividends]

Is it true that many of the gencos are owned by foreign entities?

I didn't check but my senior who used to be a consultant with power plants told me so........ I know keppel , semb , hyflux are not..but how about the others?

Anyway, SP power , the distributer and owner of the grid , with temasek as investor, seems to be doing very very well with near billion in profits

[amperex]

Thanks yeokiwi.

I'm wondering, when they allowed hyflux to sell their retail bonds to the general public ( not all bonds can be retail and  they are  selected on some criteria )and most of the generators  say they can't recover cost , probably due to the price fixed by EMA , and if hyflux were to go under...and many moms and pops with  their retirement funds decimated.what a big hoo ha it will be since the outcome is largely blamed at the ones who fixed the prices and the ones who allowed it to be sold...

Gosh. What's happening !!

I think no one can blame anyone. Nobody owes anybody a living whether you are moms and pops or brothers and sisters. If you don't know what a 6% perpetuals issued by Hyflux means and still want to buy them, then you are either lazy or stupid or greedy or lazy stupid and greedy.

[SpaceX]

Thanks yeokiwi.

I'm wondering, when they allowed hyflux to sell their retail bonds to the general public ( not all bonds can be retail and  they are  selected on some criteria )and most of the generators  say they can't recover cost , probably due to the price fixed by EMA , and if hyflux were to go under...and many moms and pops with  their retirement funds decimated.what a big hoo ha it will be since the outcome is largely blamed at the ones who fixed the prices and the ones who allowed it to be sold...

Gosh. What's happening !!

I think no one can blame anyone. Nobody owes anybody a living whether you are moms and pops or brothers and sisters. If you don't know what a 6% perpetuals issued by Hyflux means and still want to buy them, then you are either lazy or stupid or greedy or lazy stupid and greedy.

If we read the posts in VB, we could find out that even those knowledgeable persons here could make mistakes, AK71 whom I respect a lot could make... those Analysts make mistakes, even Buffet made mistakes....Are they Lazy Stupid greedy? I think we all know the answer. I observe something in common for those people, they are knowledgeable, professional , humble, sharing and honest. I have been a quiet reader here and learnt a lot from their sharing. And I benefit a lot here, through the VB forum, I have learnt how to be a value investor instead of speculator, read the fundamentals instead of following those rumours . This is the best forum I have ever known of. I respect those people who are both knowledgeable and humble...But today I sense something was missing... the humility ...


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[weijian]

Thanks yeokiwi.

I'm wondering, when they allowed hyflux to sell their retail bonds to the general public ( not all bonds can be retail and  they are  selected on some criteria )and most of the generators  say they can't recover cost , probably due to the price fixed by EMA , and if hyflux were to go under...and many moms and pops with  their retirement funds decimated.what a big hoo ha it will be since the outcome is largely blamed at the ones who fixed the prices and the ones who allowed it to be sold...

Gosh. What's happening !!

I think no one can blame anyone. Nobody owes anybody a living whether you are moms and pops or brothers and sisters. If you don't know what a 6% perpetuals issued by Hyflux means and still want to buy them, then you are either lazy or stupid or greedy or lazy stupid and greedy.

hi amperex,
Certain points have already been made and it adds no value regurgitating it in a different form. Please take note of some of the descriptive words you have used - They are not encouraged on VB.com.

Moderator