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25-03-2012, 01:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 25-03-2012, 01:43 PM by FFNow.)
I really respect this guy. He made it all on his own! His book makes a good read too.
Regarding buying US-listed ETFs, you can try optionsxpress. They have a office in Singapore near China Square (not sure if they are still located there). You can get commission of as low as USD$9.90 or USD$14.90 (this was what I got when I started the account but was reduced to $9.90). For the international stock index ETF, you can look into Vanguard Total World Stock (ticker symbol: VT). I'm not exactly sure about the composition. You can google it.
I don't know how Singaporeans can open a Vanguard account. Never looked into it.
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i think he is saying one has to learn to be "KIAM KOO"(delay gratification) first and keep on investing whatever little amount of money one saves especially from young; to be able to amass "great amount" of money for later life (retirement). What retirement? 
But there are people who started investing quite late at the age of 40 or even 40+ but it's O. K. They are doing quite well. Better late than never is true saying. 
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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25-03-2012, 05:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 25-03-2012, 05:36 PM by Drizzt.)
cant beat my USD 5 bucks commission at thinkorswim haha
it would seem that there isn't much discussion on buying singapore lyxor or dbx etfs. are they that bad?
in the old days, we used to have a forumer that does indexing. but he only uses the VTI which tracks the wilshere 5000 index which encompass all us stocks. his logic is that the us market have the most historical data and that there isn't much advantage in stocks out of the dominant US.
i would think a simple investor can dump his money into one that follows the msci world stock index?
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(25-03-2012, 05:33 PM)Drizzt Wrote: it would seem that there isn't much discussion on buying singapore lyxor or dbx etfs. are they that bad?
Got stocks to buy, why bother with these ETFs and most of them are synthetic ETFs.
I am only interested in STI ETF but that is simply because it is a approved investment instrument for CPF-OA.
And, there is nothing really exciting to talk about STI-ETF.
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25-03-2012, 09:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 25-03-2012, 09:21 PM by pianist.)
his investment portfolio is worth at least sgd2 million at age 41yo. Can a middle class person in singapore able to achieve that by purely allocating a disciplined amount regularly into usa stock etf, sti-etf and sg bonds index and rely on compund interest? i quite doubt it.
he might be earning canadian ronney paycheck whose quantum was higher here plus i bet cost of living in canada was cheaper on big tickets items like cars, houses, medical expenses.
in any case he is an inspiration indeed...just conincidentally my malaysian mechanic uncle running his own small mechanic shop in ang moi kio happens to be a multi-millionaire also. His shop just a stone throw away from his flat and everyday walk to work, save transport cost plus wife will bring home-cooked food to the shop..so sweet.
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(25-03-2012, 07:37 PM)yeokiwi Wrote: (25-03-2012, 05:33 PM)Drizzt Wrote: it would seem that there isn't much discussion on buying singapore lyxor or dbx etfs. are they that bad?
Got stocks to buy, why bother with these ETFs and most of them are synthetic ETFs.
I am only interested in STI ETF but that is simply because it is a approved investment instrument for CPF-OA.
And, there is nothing really exciting to talk about STI-ETF.
i concur. Never buy any Index or ETF before. But as i have almost used up my human capital, STI ETF may look interesting to me for the first time in my life during the next severe BearMall.
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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"Many people try to look wealthy before they truly have money. "
Now that is so true. Look at the number of luxury cars on the road,
Of course these folks are doing quite well to afford the cars,
but do they have the ability to pay it all off at any given time?
Or the cars strictly 80-90% on borrowed time/loan?
My work requires me to run around a lot nearly everyday but I am thinking
looking at the prices of cars now, I seriously doubt I could afford one,
even if it's 2nd hand/3rd hand/4th hand. It slightly worries me as my rust bucket on wheels
is about to expire.
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Passive index investing is not popular because:
1) Most investors think they belong to the 25% of professional managers that can beat the index
2) Thinks he/she is the next WB. No one wants to be the "average" investor where passive investing shines over the LONG term.
3) If follow John Bogle and this Canadian teacher, can't attend AGM for free buffet, can't talk about our 10 baggers, can't display our high yielding collection of dividend stocks, no point coming here to have discussions on individual stocks!
4) And most of all, cannot have fun 
Just google singapore man of leisure
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26-03-2012, 08:40 AM
(This post was last modified: 26-03-2012, 08:43 AM by KopiKat.)
(26-03-2012, 08:05 AM)Jared Seah Wrote: Passive index investing is not popular because:
1) Most investors think they belong to the 25% of professional managers that can beat the index
2) Thinks he/she is the next WB. No one wants to be the "average" investor where passive investing shines over the LONG term.
3) If follow John Bogle and this Canadian teacher, can't attend AGM for free buffet, can't talk about our 10 baggers, can't display our high yielding collection of dividend stocks, no point coming here to have discussions on individual stocks!
4) And most of all, cannot have fun
If I'm not wrong, the majority of people who'd tried investing in stocks ended up "disillusioned" cos' they loses $$ (some even during a bull market!). So,
(1) & (2) : Their dreams get shattered.
(3) : The free buffet looks useful for use as fodder to pelt the management when they do attend AGMs to scream and shout at them for their bad performance. They only have 'inverse' 10-baggers ie. now worth 10% of original buy price plus list of 'shame' stocks. Still go to forum eg. CNA to complain rather than have happy discussions.
(4) : Don't think it's fun to see your Net Worth becoming a fraction of what it was.
So, Passive Index Investing is actually most suitable for people who belong to the above category ie. unable to make $$ from direct stock investing. That is, if they have not become too fearful of the stock market.
In my case, the most unfortunate thing is ETF are now only meant for sophisticated investors ie. SIP. My broker had not given me a waiver and I'd been too lazy to submit the forms (I think it's a test? Our exams oriented school system had made me so fearful of taking tests as I'm afraid I'll fail!). So, haha, I'm not sophisticated enough to invest in ETFs!
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26-03-2012, 10:12 AM
(This post was last modified: 26-03-2012, 10:17 AM by Jared Seah.)
Yes KopiKat.
I've written the above in the ironic sense.
http://singaporemanofleisure.blogspot.co...index.html
I agree most people would do better with passive investing. The trouble is most will recommend to others but ourselves. Self-denial (myself included).
Like gamblers, we harbour the hope of one more try...
Hard to admit all those hours over the weekend pouring over annual and quarterly reports bear little fruit. And those thousands paid to sure win "durian sellers" are merely buying a few days of "escapism". Like those motivational seminars company sent us to. Once back to office, reality bites! But at least those were paid by "ah kong"!
The problem with ETFs is that most people will can't help but TRADE them - breaking the cardinal rule of passive index investing.
MAS smart. Class ETF as SIP. So if one of the European bank sponsor blew-up in the event Spain or Italy defaults, then hey! You went in with eyes open right? You did do the SIP test yourself right? Weren't you "sophisticated"?
The ideal would be no-load, low cost passive index funds - like the Vanguard ones. That would bring up another problem as most local Singapore brokers and FA would not recommend or distribute them - no meat...
But the one thing that do us in the most: patience (or lack of it).
Who wants to wait 20 to 30 years to see the result?
Just google singapore man of leisure
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