Yangzijiang Shipbuilding (Holdings)

[dzwm87]

Not sure about the details but actual tax payment tends to differ with account tax expenses.

Anyway, where did you get the list of tax payers? from the state administration website?

[Clement]

Hi buddies, need some help from buddies here.

I wasgoogling and baiduing the Jiangsu State Adminstration of Taxes and only get 2008 top 100 tax payers info, see attached.

YZJ is ranked 95 in 2008 and pay taxes of 198 million rmb (see attached)

But their 2007 accounts show they pay 130 million taxes? (http://ir.zaobao.com.sg/yangzijiang/doc/yzj_ar2008.pdf pg 20)

Er... I thought ppl over declare profits but end up paying less taxes, YZJ pay more taxes than declared, why the discrepancy.

YZJ　is the 17th top payer of tax in 2011
http://news.xinmin.cn/rollnews/2012/04/01/14261033.html

YZJ is the 13th top payer of tax in 2012
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2415945314

I can't find the detailed document for other years from the Jiangsu SAT or the internet thou...

Anyone can explain why??

Hi Greenrookie,

In general, the tax expense on the income statements is not equal to the actual tax payable or paid for the year. Taxes payable will be disclosed as current taxes and taxes paid will be disclosed in the cash flow statement. For 2008 they reported RMB 151.2m in paid income taxes.

Now does the Jiangsu SAT report for assessed taxes or paid taxes and does it only include income taxes or all types of taxes paid?

[Greenrookie]

Hi clement,

The various possibilities u mentioned would have explained why jiangsu SAT is lower than YZJ group. But the case is reversed. The Jiangsu SAT is higher and YZJ group has other subsidaries beside new yangzi yard, so .. It's puzzling.

I was hoping that YZJ group tax paid is close to that figure but SAT, as the case of fraud will be reduced. But now the group tax is lower than what SAT has.

Maybe year of assessment window different? Or documentation by SAT poor. Btw, the source did not come from SAT official website. There is a mention of the news in its website and I bai du the key words.

[Clement]

Hi clement,

The various possibilities u mentioned would have explained why jiangsu SAT is lower than YZJ group. But the case is reversed. The Jiangsu SAT is higher and YZJ group has other subsidaries beside new yangzi yard, so .. It's puzzling.

I was hoping that YZJ group tax paid is close to that figure but SAT, as the case of fraud will be reduced. But now the group tax is lower than what SAT has.

Maybe year of assessment window different? Or documentation by SAT poor. Btw, the source did not come from SAT official website. There is a mention of the news in its website and I bai du the key words.

If the SAT report top 100 taxpayers based on all taxes including VAT etc, it would explain the SAT report being higher. VAT and other taxes are not reported in income tax expense in income statements, nor are such payments disclosed as taxes paid in cash flow statements.

[Greenrookie]

Hi clement,

The various possibilities u mentioned would have explained why jiangsu SAT is lower than YZJ group. But the case is reversed. The Jiangsu SAT is higher and YZJ group has other subsidaries beside new yangzi yard, so .. It's puzzling.

I was hoping that YZJ group tax paid is close to that figure but SAT, as the case of fraud will be reduced. But now the group tax is lower than what SAT has.

Maybe year of assessment window different? Or documentation by SAT poor. Btw, the source did not come from SAT official website. There is a mention of the news in its website and I bai du the key words.

If the SAT report top 100 taxpayers based on all taxes including VAT etc, it would explain the SAT report being higher. VAT and other taxes are not reported in income tax expense in income statements, nor are such payments disclosed as taxes paid in cash flow statements.

OIC, such info is lacking. Thanks for explaining

[CityFarmer]

The share price crossed over $1.20, which is a fair price base on historical earning, IMO.

Further upside will be driven by forward earnings estimations, IMO

(vested)

[freedom]

the yard capacity has almost filled til 2016. What's next?

The board and management got to have some other more diversified/safer investment than shadow banking assets to ease the nerve of some institution investors.

[Greenrookie]

the yard capacity has almost filled til 2016. What's next?

The board and management got to have some other more diversified/safer investment than shadow banking assets to ease the nerve of some institution investors.

Hi freedom,

If I am not mistaken, all orders are served by the new yangzi yard, they still have the changbo yard. It is left dormant deliberately in 2011 or 2012 can't remembered to save operational costs.

Such there is still capacity to capture the market. My concerns is not that of capacity, there are also idle yards for consolidation (acquisitions) , but more of that of quality of contract. The recent wins does not have fat margins...

[freedom]

In the outlook section, it did not mention which yard, but just yard. I would assume it means all the yards.

Now given that the yard has enough order, the remaining order will be relatively higher value and higher margin. Otherwise, they can choose to do nothing.

The main issue is still their financial assets. Operation wise, it is one of the best yards in China, probably one of the best in the world as well.

[CityFarmer]

the yard capacity has almost filled til 2016. What's next?

The board and management got to have some other more diversified/safer investment than shadow banking assets to ease the nerve of some institution investors.

What next? I am looking at its property venture. The moving out from the old yard should be completed by now. The yard's land has been acquired from local gov. JV was established. The work will be started next year, and will start its contribute to PnL around 2015, if all goes well.

(vested)