Yangzijiang Shipbuilding (Holdings)

[Behappyalways]

report-claims-less-one-three-yangzijiangs-ships-construction-profitable
http://splash247.com/report-claims-less-...rofitable/

[touzi]

Raising S$209m while paying S$153m-210m annually as diividends

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companie...nvestments

During the AGM, the CFO explained that if they use the cash in China to pay dividend, there will be a withholding tax.

[weijian]

Raising S$209m while paying S$153m-210m annually as diividends

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companie...nvestments

During the AGM, the CFO explained that if they use the cash in China to pay dividend, there will be a withholding tax.

As the saying goes "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar". I presume in this case, Xi should gets what he should get? Always good to keep your boss/regulators happy.

Personally, I will be a little wary of those folks who try to be "a little too clever" with (our) money. Would prefer a lower unlevered yield over higher levered yields, after-tax earnings over tax-free earnings and goes on. Somehow, i feel things that don't try to be too efficient and have allowance for redundancies are more durable/anti-fragile. Sometimes, a too clever Management might kill too, if the integrity is found not to be matching in stature.

[Young Investor]

Raising S$209m while paying S$http://www.grandnessgroups.com/show_news.aspx?id=260

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companie...nvestments

During the AGM, the CFO explained that if they use the cash in China to pay dividend, there will be a withholding tax.

As the saying goes "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar". I presume in this case, Xi should gets what he should get? Always good to keep your boss/regulators happy.

Personally, I will be a little wary of those folks who try to be "a little too clever" with (our) money. Would prefer a lower unlevered yield over higher levered yields, after-tax earnings over tax-free earnings and goes on. Somehow, i feel things that don't try to be too efficient and have allowance for redundancies are more durable/anti-fragile. Sometimes, a too clever Management might kill too, if the integrity is found not to be matching in stature.

Weijian

Are you saying something not right for the company to raise s$209m and using some to pay dividend? It worry investors like me when guru like you said so. 

[donmihaihai]

Yangzijang is a Singapore base co that derive income from its subsidiaries mainly from china.With this income it is able to pay dividends. What the CFO said is just timing of cash distribution from subsidiaries. End of the day the need to pay withholding tax is there. Just when.

Read AR you will see a huge amount of deferred tax liabilities mainly due to undistribute profit Not all are payable but as Long as yangzijing want to pay dividends to shareholders. It need income from operating subsidiaries in China. Here come the withholding tax.

Playing around with when to pay or so called tax planning don’t change the need to pay.

[specuvestor]

Thanks touzi for following up. Actually come to think of it what they are doing is similar to Apple issuing bonds to pay dividends

And yes sometimes I find the chairman too clever
https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-588-...#pid132210

but I can’t dismiss their cash flow and results simply over the past 10 years, unlike some other s-chips

They even use their onshore cash to finance WMP and dividends in past few years. Their name didn’t seem to appear on Huarong or Trust fund raising either

[touzi]

Raising S$209m while paying S$153m-210m annually as diividends

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companie...nvestments

During the AGM, the CFO explained that if they use the cash in China to pay dividend, there will be a withholding tax.

As the saying goes "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar". I presume in this case, Xi should gets what he should get? Always good to keep your boss/regulators happy.

Personally, I will be a little wary of those folks who try to be "a little too clever" with (our) money. Would prefer a lower unlevered yield over higher levered yields, after-tax earnings over tax-free earnings and goes on. Somehow, i feel things that don't try to be too efficient and have allowance for redundancies are more durable/anti-fragile. Sometimes, a too clever Management might kill too, if the integrity is found not to be matching in stature.

Sorry I could have been clearer. It is deferred as donmihaihai correctly pointed out.

Mr Ren in my opinion is just an old school businessman that counts every penny. Very different from the entrepreneurs these days who burn cash from VC.

[specuvestor]

Accounting wise it can be deferred but it can also not be realised eventually eg change in tax rate or tax holiday or tax credits etc

[donmihaihai]

Any changes in tax code or tax holiday will resulted in tax gain in P&L. It is happening to US Co now. Accounting generally follow what is happening.. can't be otherwise or it is creative accounting.

If you read the financials carefully, you will notice that Yangzijing always pay less tax than what is reported in P&L. -> compare cashflow statement and P&L. Reasons mainly because of withholding tax on distributable profit taken as expenses but not paid which resulted in deferred tax liabilities. Not every company do that. some just disclose in the notes. What is the diff? I don't know. Might be due to management or tax code.

Because this involve 2 jurisdiction. ie Singapore and China. I will not be surprise that some company are gaming the system and not paying any withholding tax. Hard to catch anyway you see. I am not saying Yangzijing is doing that.

[specuvestor]

yes thats what I mean... PnL is also an accounting thing... it may not be realised in actual cashflow. Tax accounting takes into account plausible tax liability. Just like depreciation factor in the plausible life of the asset, but it is almost always incorrect.

I've said before accounting is a shadow of reality, not reality itself. But got shadow and outline better than nothing Thats's why finance people focus on business model; accountants focus on numbers

Before listing businessman only think about cashflow because you cannot eat PnL. The only time they think about PnL is probably when paying taxes

NB I think they pay withholding tax in China only when money leaves the shores