Private habits of Putin (Russian Crisis)

[greengiraffe]

Turkey shoots down Russian fighter over border with Syria

• AP
  
  
• NOVEMBER 25, 2015 7:08AM
  

Putin warns Turkey after jet shot down

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Vladimir Putin has slammed Turkey as “accomplices of terror” after a Russian war plane was shot down by Turkish forces.

As tensions soared between the two rival players in the Syria war, the Russian military announced it would cease all military contact with Turkey.
Moscow said one of two pilots who ejected from the Su-24 plane was killed by gunfire from the ground as he descended, although Turkish officials insisted both were still alive.
A Russian soldier was also killed when a helicopter search-and-rescue operation came under fire, the Russian defence ministry said.

• MORE:Turkey shoots down Russian warplane
  
• MORE:Turkey: Russia violated airspace
  
• MORE:Putin jammer threatens NATO jets
  

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With alarm growing that the incident could snowball into a major conflict, the Turnbull government joined the US, France and NATO in calling for a de-escalation of tensions.
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said a clear and precise analysis was needed of the incident.
“There will not be any military retaliation, but clearly there must be an investigation as to what occurred,” she said today.
Cabinet minister Josh Frydenberg described it as the “most serious incident between NATO and Russian forces in nearly half a century”.
With so many aircraft from different nations over the region there was a chance of iscalculation, he said.
“I’m sure this story is just at its beginning. It shows how fluid, how dynamic, how dangerous the situation is.”
Ankara has said its jets shot down the Russian aircraft after it violated Turkish airspace 10 times within a five-minute period, a move that the Russian president denounced as a “stab in the back” by Turkey.
Russia has insisted the jet was all the time inside Syrian airspace and condemned the downing as “a very serious incident”.
Its claims that a pilot was killed appear to be backed by a video released by Syrian activists that show rebels with what appears to be the dead body of an airman.

The plane fell in Syrian territory, four kilometres (2.5 miles) from the border. The crew ejected. According to preliminary information, one of the pilot died after being fired upon from the ground,” military spokesman General Sergei Rudskoi said in televised remarks.
US President Barack Obama said Turkey had “a right to defend its territory and its airspace” but urged against any escalation, while NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg also called for calm.
Speaking shortly after meeting with his French counterpart Francois Hollande at the White House, Mr Obama urged calm and said diplomacy should be allowed to work.
“I think it is very important for us to right now make sure that both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other and find out exactly what happened, and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation,” Mr Obama told reporters.
“Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and airspace,” he said.
But Mr Obama said his top priority “is going to be to ensure that this does not escalate.” “Hopefully, this is a moment in which all parties can step back and make a determination as to how their interests are best served.”
Moscow has insisted that the jet had stayed inside Syrian territory. The shoot-down was the first incident of its kind since Russia launched air strikes in Syria in September in support of President Bashar al-Assad’s regime.
The Russian warplanes have been pounding Syrian rebels and Islamic State fighters, and they have raised western concerns about a possible clash with US-led coalition planes also flying missions over Syria.
Mr Hollande called the air clash “serious” and regrettable, and said Turkey was providing relevant information to NATO in order to help determine what happened.
“But we must prevent an escalation. That would be extremely damaging,” Hollande said.
“We must find a solution to this Syrian crisis, because we can see what the risks are otherwise.” UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for urgent measures to de-escalate the tensions, saying a “credible and thorough review” of the incident would help clarify what happened and prevent a repeat.
Despite the spike in tensions, there was no immediate request for an emergency UN Security Council meeting.
British Ambassador Matthew Rycroft, whose country chairs the council this month, said a meeting could be held if requested and that the incident was not raised during a morning session.
NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg made similar appeals for calm.
“As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally, Turkey,” Stoltenberg said after an emergency meeting of all 28 members requested by Ankara.
“I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and call for calm and de-escalation. Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this situation,” he said
Turkey shoots down Russian jet
Earlier, Turkish media said one pilot had been captured by rebel forces in Syria after both ejected by parachute while Syrian opposition sources said one was dead and another missing.
The fighter jet exploded in midair, crashing in a fireball onto a mountain on the Syrian side of the border, television pictures showed.

The presence of aircraft from Russia, the US, France, Turkey and a clutch of Gulf states in Syrian skies had long raised fears of an incident that could quickly escalate into a major diplomatic and military crisis.
“A Russian Su-24 plane was downed under the rules of engagement because it violated Turkish airspace despite the warnings,” the Turkish presidency said.
Turkey has summoned the Russian envoy to Ankara over the incident, which comes on the eve of a visit by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to the country.
Russia confirmed that one of its planes had been downed at an altitude of 6000m but said it appeared to have been shot down from the ground.
“Presumably as a result of firing from the ground, an Su-24 plane of the Russian forces crashed in the Syrian Arab Republic,” Russian news agencies quoted the defence ministry as saying.
“It is a very serious incident,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.
The Turkish army said that the downing took place over the Yayladagi district of Turkey’s Hatay province on the border with Syria.
“The plane violated Turkish air space 10 times in five minutes despite warnings,” the army said in a statement, adding it was shot down by at 9.24am (6.24pm AEDT) “according to the rules of engagement”.
Reports said two pilots had ejected from the plane and Turkish television pictures showed two white parachutes descending to the ground.
Their fate was not certain.
CNN-Turk said Syrian Turkmen forces fighting the Russian-backed regime of President Bashar al-Assad had captured one pilot.
Syrian opposition sources meanwhile said one pilot was dead, the second missing.
Turkey’s Dogan news agency broadcast footage of what it said was Russian helicopters flying over Syrian territory in an apparent search for the lost men.
The incident came as Russian and Syrian jets are waging a heavy bombing campaign against targets in northern Syria.
Turkey has expressed anger at the operation, saying it is aimed at buttressing the Syrian regime and has displaced thousands of Turkmen Syrians, an ethnic minority in the area and strong allies of Ankara.
Russia however insists the air strikes are aimed against Islamic State jihadists.
At Ankara’s request, NATO allies will hold an “extraordinary” meeting early today to discuss the incident, an alliance official said.
“NATO is monitoring the situation closely. We are in contact with Turkish authorities.”
Russian fighter jets entered Turkish airspace in two separate incidents in October, prompting Ankara to summon the Russian ambassador twice to protest both violations.
Turkey and Russia have long been at loggerheads over the Syrian conflict, with Ankara seeking Assad’s overthrow while Moscow does everything to keep him in power.
The Turkish military in October also shot down a Russian-made drone that had entered its airspace. But Moscow denied the drone belonged to its forces.
It remains to be seen what action Turkey could call for at NATO. Turkey in July invoked NATO’s rarely-used article four — which allows any member to request a meeting of all 28 NATO ambassadors — over its campaign against Kurdish rebels.
Mr Lavrov is due to visit Turkey today in a bid to smooth ties and find a joint approach to finding peace in Syria.
Along with Saudi Arabia and the US, Turkey and Russia are taking part in talks in Vienna that aim to narrow differences on the Syria conflict and have taken on an extra importance after the Paris attacks.
A Turkish foreign ministry official said Mr Lavrov’s visit would go ahead as planned: “There is no change in the program.”
AFP

[greengiraffe]

• Nov 27 2015 at 11:05 AM 
  

Obama hopes Putin will fail in Syria

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[img=620x0]http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/l/9/a/f/y/image.related.afrArticleLead.620x350.gl9h21.png/1448588833339.jpg[/img]Vladimir Putin could change the situation in Syria by giving up his proxy AP

As an expression of solidarity with America's oldest, currently bruised, ally, Barack Obama's words of welcome to his French counterpart on November 24th might sound a bit cloying. "We love France for your spirit and your culture, your joie de vivre," he told François Hollande. "Since the attacks, Americans have recalled their own visits to Paris, visiting the Eiffel Tower or walking along the Seine." "Oh là là!" Mr Hollande might have been forgiven for muttering. He had come to Washington to persuade Mr Obama to lead a more aggressive campaign against his country's scourge, Islamic State, not to be garlanded with onions.
The many, including in Washington, who hoped the massacre in Paris would induce Mr Obama to launch a bolder attack on the jihadists have been disappointed. Mr Hollande wants more American military support for the "merciless" campaign he has promised against IS. Mr Obama seconded that ambition, reiterating his vow that the terrorists "must be destroyed". Yet he promised no new American means to that end, apart from more US-French intelligence-sharing and, in the event that the European Union makes its airlines share passenger information, as Mr Obama said they should, American experts to help out.
He probably worries that America is overcommitted in Syria already, having last month announced a step-up in operations against IS, including the dispatch of "fewer than 50" military trainers to help its Syrian enemies, which he had previously resisted. The most modest deployment of ground troops imaginable, this was made necessary by the failure of America's pre-existing, out-of-country, training plan, which cost $500m, put less than half a dozen fighters in the field and appears to have been scrapped last month.

It was also partly a reaction to Russia's intervention in September on the side of Syria's president, Bashar al-Assad
RELUCTANCE TO COMMIT 
Elected, as he saw it, to end wasteful foreign wars, his response to the four-year-old crisis has been governed by an overarching reluctance to commit America to another one. The result, say his critics – the ranks of whom, since Paris, Hillary Clinton, his former secretary of state, and Leon Panetta and Chuck Hagel, both former defence secretaries under him, have flirted with joining–has been a policy designed to answer the political exigency to act with minimal action.
When Mr Assad gassed his own people in 2013, Mr Obama let him off with a warning. Asked to consider establishing a no-fly zone to stop the Syrian leader's more conventional methods of slaughter, the president last year authorised the, since failed, training programme. When IS surged, he sent no ground troops to stop it, only air strikes; they have so far cost an estimated $5 billion and accounted for a few of the group's leaders, without threatening to cost it territory. Offering Mr Hollande, after the savage assault on his country's capital, technical expertise on airport security, was in line with that record.


Mr Obama is unfazed by his critics: he mainly considers them either disingenuous or deluded. In the former camp, he puts members of the Republican-dominated Congress who accuse him of failing to take decisive action – though many of the same politicians had sought to deny him, in 2013, the authorisation he had requested to bomb Mr Assad after the gas attacks. In the latter crew he places those, including several of his former advisers, who advocate a more aggressive assault on IS, perhaps in tandem, as Mr Hagel suggested this week, with a temporary slackening of American resolve to depose Mr Assad.
MESOPOTAMIA MANIA
The notion that American or any other foreign troops could provide a viable security alternative to IS was for Mr Obama conclusively disproved by the mayhem they unleashed in Iraq. The choice between prioritising IS over Mr Assad, he believes, is a false one, given the extent to which the Syrian leader's predations on Syrian Sunni Muslims have fuelled the jihadists. That leaves his gradualist strategy, minimalist as it might seem, of containing IS with air power, while strengthening both the jihadists' and Mr Assad's local enemies, and meanwhile working on the Russians to abandon their proxy, as the least-worst option. "We have the right strategy and we're going to see it through," he declared shortly after the Paris attacks.
This has not much reassured Americans, almost 70 per cent  of whom now worry about the prospect of a terrorist attack in America. Yet if Mr Obama can seem tin-eared to that nervousness, he has a point. Most of the criticism of his handling of Syria is retrospective; it is mainly focused on his failure to punish Mr Assad for the gas attacks. Few of his critics are proposing any striking alternative to his current course.

Among the contenders for the Republican presidential nomination, who have most to gain from slamming him, only Lindsey Graham, a trailing no-hoper, proposes sending many American troops against IS. He advocates sending 10,000 as part of a 100,000-strong allied army (it is not clear who would provide the remaining 90 per cent ). The alternative course suggested by Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, the other Republican contenders who have spoken most about Syria, are more modest. Mr Bush would also send some more ground troops and use them to call in air strikes on IS and both would enforce a no-fly zone to hamper Mr Assad. So would Mrs Clinton, in a break with Mr Obama that will grow as and when she secures her party's nomination. Yet arguing over no-fly zones, an option that Mr Obama dislikes but has not ruled out, looks like a red herring. They would not take the fight to IS, which has no air force, and would raise the risk of confrontation with Russia.
As a rebuke to America's global leadership, the Russian intervention is a major cause of the unhappiness Mr Obama is facing over Syria. Americans reasonably consider it a response to their absence from the battlefield. Primarily aimed at Mr Assad's non-jihadist enemies, it also appears to have impeded America's year-long bombing of IS. Since the Russians began flying sorties over Syria in September, there has been a reduction in American ones, allegedly (and though the administration refutes this) to mitigate the risk of a US-Russian collision. And yet, in a negative sense, Mr Obama's administration seems to be investing more hope in President Vladimir Putin's intervention than its own.
If America's Syria-watchers agree on anything it is that the Russian campaign, which has enabled Mr Assad's forces to make only minor gains, will fail, and thereby encourage Russia to give up on its proxy. That would be a huge boost to the UN-backed peace talks John Kerry, the secretary of state, is brokering, with the aim of replacing Mr Assad with a transitional government early next year. His exit, or even a growing prospect of it, would in turn be expected to embolden moderate Sunni Muslims to turn against the jihadists who are currently their most successful co-religionist representatives.
It is wishful, but such is Mr Obama's plan, and it is hard, barring a major attack in America, to see what might make him expand on it. Certainly, Paris could not.



Economist

[HitandRun]

Why did the Turks whack the Russian plane? Is an alleged violation of its airspace reason enough?

Here's what Erdogan said in 2012 when Turkey's plane got shot down:

A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack


Why the double standards? Perhaps we have the answers below:

Bilal Ergodan - the smuggler

What the Russian found in a couple of months, which the Americans were "unable/unwilling" to discover in > 18 months.

More cloak and dagger stuff from Turkey

[pianist]

Seems like turkey is playing dirty

[BlueKelah]

It's gonna be like the cold war times again. There was large movement of arms and troops into Ukraine this month and now Syria has Russian airforce flying around the region, supposedly helping out by bombing ISIS targets. 

People from democratic countries seem to forget that no matter what they say or do, countries like North Korea, China and Russia are still a bunch of communist controlled countries. Very hard to have peace with democratically run countries, a bit like the Jews/Christians and Muslims, hard to find common ground when there is none. There's gonna be a lot more shooting going forward. USA should probably not have remove Saddam, leaving a power gap and thus destabilised the Iraq and the surrounding region, even though their corporations gained the iraqi oil, now becoz of ISIS they have lost some of that as well.

'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.' - George Orwell

[HitandRun]

People from democratic countries seem to forget that no matter what they say or do, countries like North Korea, China and Russia are still a bunch of communist controlled countries. Very hard to have peace with democratically run countries, a bit like the Jews/Christians and Muslims, hard to find common ground when there is none. There's gonna be a lot more shooting going forward. USA should probably not have remove Saddam, leaving a power gap and thus destabilised the Iraq and the surrounding region, even though their corporations gained the iraqi oil, now becoz of ISIS they have lost some of that as well.

Bro

You appear to suggest that communist regimes are more warlike but the facts would appear to indicate otherwise, most of the armed conflicts appear to be instigated/supported by Uncle Sam himself (no less).

Armed Conflict Involvement by USA

My conclusion is that whether a regime is democratic or communist does not appear to be indicative of its warlike tendencies.