Alibaba

[Choon]

And Amazon has decided that they would not be part of this cash burning contest, at least for the time being?

[Elty]

   

When we take a look at the interest over a Worldwide geographical setting, we see the trend of user search intent for Shopee and Lazada even more clearly.

[CY09]

And Amazon has decided that they would not be part of this cash burning contest, at least for the time being?

Amazon has amazon prime in Singapore but its product variety is smaller and they don't offer as much discount as Shopee and Lazada. So yes, likely they are not part of this cash burning contest.

Maybe Amazon is waiting for the eventual winner of the shopee/lazada battle before expanding their network and zero profit strategy to fight the wounded victor.

South East Asia e-commerce landscape is an interesting place to see. Lazada was a clear winner before 2016, until shopee came in as a cheaper alternative and with marketing expenses of a few hundred million for Ronaldo and blackpink etc as ambassador, while burning a few billion in cash. Amazon arrived in 2018, but remains in Singapore and acts as a very small competitor. Don't forget there are also cash burning competitors in Tokopedia and Grabmart who are fighting in niche area of e commerce. Hence why I am not optimistic of companies trying to do e commerce battle here... Unicorns burning cash to fight a war with a sleeping giant perhaps in wait.... a nice fairy tale to read and learn from

[Bibi]

I used to buy things from lazada last time. But increasingly been using shopee. There are things which can be found in shopee but not in lazada. The main reason for using shopee and their price is similiar.

Just few days back, i decided to give lazada another chance and bought a wired earphone. It took only a day for the item to arrive and i rem it used to be 3 to 4 days. seems they hv improved in that area. Shopee takes around 2 to 3 days.

Their redmart has also improved. They scrapped membership fees. And most items pricing are similiar to ntuc now. previously more expensive. And the eggs my wife ordered always cracked due to their rough delivery. Now seems alright.

[Bibi]

Amazon SG grocery is fast. U order the items u can get it in evening or the next day. However, most of their grocery items are out of stock. I got fed up and let my prime membership lapsed and tried using redmart now. Not trying to get out of topic but to inform that Alibaba operations has improved.

[Choon]

Just an observation which surprised me slightly.

I have always assumed given Amazon's larger mkt cap, its ecommerce business should be larger than Ali's, if not in GMV or revenue, but at least in profit.

But when I do a comparison of their ecommerce business profits, Ali's profit is substantially higher.

Amazon 2020 total operating profit = USD23B
- of which Cloud = USD14B
- of which N.America + International = USD10B

Ali 2021 core commerce EBITA (which includes Taobao/Tmall and the losses of New Retail, Consumer Services, Lazada, Cainiao) = RMB195B (USD30B)

Amazon's USD10B vs Ali's USD30B. Even if deduct USD8B from Ali for its employee stock option expense, it becomes Amazon's USD10B vs Ali's USD22B.

Ali is a substantially larger retailer than Amazon (in terms of profit).

[CY09]

Comparing Amazon operating profit vs Alibaba EBITDA on the same year frame might not be an apple to apple comparison. Better to use Alibaba core commerce net operating profit which was reported to be RMB 158.9 Bil (US$24B); but the conclusion is still the same - Baba's e commerce profit is higher than Amazon's

Using the section on Alibaba's report on EBITDA, it says that Less: Effects of New Retail businesses, Local Consumer Services, Lazada, Taobao Deals, Cainiao Network, and others(1), this team of start ups are in negative EBITDA of RMB $34.6 billion (US$5.34 billion) on a full year basis.

[Wildreamz]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business...ff-2100091

Rocked by sexual assault allegation, Alibaba launches investigation, suspends several staff

[Choon]

Comparing Amazon operating profit vs Alibaba EBITDA on the same year frame might not be an apple to apple comparison. Better to use Alibaba core commerce net operating profit which was reported to be RMB 158.9 Bil (US$24B); but the conclusion is still the same - Baba's e commerce profit is higher than Amazon's

Using the section on Alibaba's report on EBITDA, it says that Less: Effects of New Retail businesses, Local Consumer Services, Lazada, Taobao Deals, Cainiao Network, and others(1), this team of start ups are in negative EBITDA of RMB $34.6 billion (US$5.34 billion) on a full year basis.

Indeed RMB158.9 is a better comparison.

[Wildreamz]

https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article...manent-new

Beijing hints that its Big Tech antitrust scrutiny could be permanent with new five-year blueprint
* New five-year rule of law blueprint calls for stronger antitrust law enforcement
* China’s antitrust law enforcement is understaffed at the moment, an official said an in interview this year