Sino Grandness

[specuvestor]

Portuser answer my questions on 28 Sept before I can be bothered. Don't pick and choose if you like to drill so much on a tree and miss out on the forest

You seriously think I'm a noob to be led by your agenda? You can't even explain what exactly is happening with all these red flags all these years except chasing numbers, focusing on counting red flags and interest cost to the decimal points instead. Why don't you recount the restructuring again based on how many times they said it will be paid but doesn't, for past 3 years, including this SB2, since you like counting.

They still can IPO GF after all these debt restructuring?? Seriously? Because they said so?

You're a fresh accountant to be so naive? Even the long-time crazies at Sharejunction is realising something amiss. I'm running out of patience explaining reality instead of living in a textbook. Like I said, all I'm hoping for is real people who follow this forum for advice don't sink their hard earned money on this trip to nowhere. Otherwise I can't be bothered

[portuser]

Specuvestor wrtoe:
"Portuser answer my questions on 28 Sept before I can be bothered. Don't pick and choose if you like to drill so much on a tree and miss out on the forest.....
You seriously think I'm a noob to be led by your agenda?......
all I'm hoping for is real people who follow this forum for advice don't sink their hard earned money on this trip to nowhere. Otherwise I can't be bothered."

You are entitled to your view that "bondholders had no alternative but to extend the bonds each time". I have already stated in my post on 3 Oct that "You may be right or wrong. I only presented facts from official sources."  

Your statement ( "If the redemption exceeds 20% all the holders will be redeemed at the same time." ) is not based on fact, and it should be clarified.  

The redemption of 2011 bonds in Sun Hung Kai in 2014 could have triggered accelerated redemption of 2012 bonds (which matured later, in 2015), based on the following:  

13.2 Notwithstanding anything contained in the Terms and Conditions, in the event the 2011 Bonds, are to be redeemed, whether voluntarily or mandatorily, earlier than the Convertible Bonds, the Bondholder’s redemption rights contained herein shall be accelerated and treated as a pari passu redemption obligation by the HK Issuer at the applicable Revised Redemption Amount under Condition 8.3 of the Terms and Conditions...
"Convertible Bonds" in the text refers to 2012 bonds. 
(Page 26 of http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Sino%20G...ileID=3078)

But the five 2012 bondholders did not invoke this clause. 

[holymage]

Hi specuvestor, I have not been following sino grandness and am unaware of what has been going on. I am wondering if you would be so kind to summarise what is the issue with this company and what are the red flags that investors can pick up along the way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[BlueKelah]

Hi specuvestor, I have not been following sino grandness and am unaware of what has been going on. I am wondering if you would be so kind to summarise what is the issue with this company and what are the red flags that investors can pick up along the way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

you can read all the posts from before. if you wanna know. Otherwise move along, this is not a stock to buy..

Asking for a list of red flags so someone can try to pick it apart and generate more discussion/interest in this stock? 

If you are genuinely interested just PM Specuvestor, I'm sure he'll be able to guide you.

[specuvestor]

Hi holymage, I searched through your post history and you've not commented on this thread.

If you have not been following it, don't waste your time. I've spent 2 AGMs and months following what they said and what they actually did after seeing the short seller's report in Sept 2014, thinking there might be value. Already gave up following it closely 1.5 years ago before it crashed 2/3. If you like s-chips spend your time better on other sensible handful that I had mentioned sporadically.

If you must this is a simple summary based on my memory: https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3371...#pid143199

Now this stock is just amusement to me but I don't underestimate the resilience if even Yuuzoo is still listed and this chairman is such amazing capitalist.

Hi specuvestor, I have not been following sino grandness and am unaware of what has been going on. I am wondering if you would be so kind to summarise what is the issue with this company and what are the red flags that investors can pick up along the way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[weijian]

Hi specuvestor, I have not been following sino grandness and am unaware of what has been going on. I am wondering if you would be so kind to summarise what is the issue with this company and what are the red flags that investors can pick up along the way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

hi holyimage,
I would encourage you to read through the thread, rather than waiting for an "executive summary". Personally, i think spending time to read through it, and extract the facts and opinions based on one's own discernment, will do more good to an OPMI, in the long run.

Of course, you are free to ask, and specuvestor is free to respond.

Moderator

[Wildreamz]

Hi specuvestor, I have not been following sino grandness and am unaware of what has been going on. I am wondering if you would be so kind to summarise what is the issue with this company and what are the red flags that investors can pick up along the way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Highly recommended that you take the time to browse through.

(once vested for 3 years)

[holymage]

Thanks everyone for the advice, especially specuvestor. Actually I am just trying to pick some good lessons learnt and it is interesting given Sino Grandness's controversial for years. As such, I do not intend to invest half a day reading 183 pages (1827 posts) as I don't intend to have a position and there are better opportunity costs for the time. Thanks for the link to the simple summary with discussion on Sino's debt.

[specuvestor]

They have the best lenders who don't demand repayment even as "cash" jumps to RMB686m. Let's see if the Thais will continue the tradition in May, but the banks were spoil-sport withdrawing RMB219m vs rights issue of RMB316m.

From their results announcement:
On 28 June 2017, the Company released announcement that it has entered into a restructuring agreement (“2017 Restructured Agreement”) with Bond holders for a further restructuring of the 2011 Bonds, the 2012 Bonds, the 2011 SB2 Bonds and the 2012 SB2 Bonds. Pending the approval from State Administration of Foreign Exchange of the People’s Republic of China (“SAFE”) for the offshore fund transfer, the company is still in the process of negotiating the repayment of SB2 to a further date. The Company will keep shareholders updated on any developments as and when appropriate.

[specuvestor]

Let's see if the Thais will continue the tradition in May

It’s quite incredible... the faith shareholders have

“In respect of convertible loan which is due on 16 May 2018, parties are in discussion to restructure the convertible loan. The Company will keep shareholders updated on any developments as and when appropriate.”

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/SGFIG%20...eID=505760