Sino Grandness

[CityFarmer]

Hi CityFarmer,

This is interesting.

If I interpret the disclosure rules correctly, slide 2 statement should be disclosed via SGXNET according to rule 702 and 703, am I not right?
 
http://rulebook.sgx.com/en/display/displ...62&print=1

I assume you are referring to the two pictures posted, which are captured during the EGM, I suppose. Correct me, if I have mistaken.

By right, company usually disclose the slides used in EGM/AGM. It isn't in this case (or not yet?), might be not new update, to the management, which is not uncommon. It is reasonable to assume, management have taken a stand, haven't they?

Most importantly, what is the value to persuade further? What need to be stated, have already stated.

Let's agree to disagree. There is no need for a consensus here.

Regards
Moderator

[ash902]

Moderator log:

I have to admit that I have given up, to read the posts in detail, with my limited time allocated to VB.

IF official disclosure is available and without doubts, then it should be no reason to further "speculate". Further clarification might follow, but we shouldn't doubt on official disclosure, unless obvious contradiction(s) observed. We need to take verbal communication in EGM, with a pitch of salt, due to a risk of miscommunication. SGXWeb based disclosures, should be reliable.

Boon, any comment?

Regards
Moderator

Hi CityFarmer,

This is interesting.

If I interpret the disclosure rules correctly, slide 2 statement should be disclosed via SGXNET according to rule 702 and 703, am I not right?
 
http://rulebook.sgx.com/en/display/displ...62&print=1
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's see whether it will be reported in the FY statement due today

[specuvestor]

Since this is my first serious post after a long time I thought I'll put on something that I am familiar with, as I continue to be intrigued by this s-chip

As for sino-grandness i am intrigued as an observer because on one hand we have 1) SHK 2) delay in IPO 3) large debt commitment 4) large working capital 5) anecdotal evidence that the drink is not widely consumed or distributed to be sizable compared to huiyan; but on the other hand we have 1) Goldman 2) non redemption of CB in sept 2014 3) TTA investment

Firstly to declare my bias:
1) I had been posting in this thread from 4Q14 to 1H15 so I assume I am somewhat familiar with the company

2) Disregarding the "hahaha" remarks I think Boon is a very detailed investor as evidenced from other threads. So we should take that into context. He is a VB and not a fly-by-night operator

3) I had thought the authority on this thread in terms of information is portuser and I still think so.

Actually it is obvious that garden fresh actually have a business. The question is whether the sales can be as high as indicated. It is not as binary as some seemed to imply

Problem is the structure of SinoGrandness exchange bond is very reliant on the the IPO, effectively making it an all or nothing, which many VBs are concerned. Portuser has a good analysis but based on the premise that the cash flows are correct. This is where the binary nature lies

Looking at the past posts, I think portuser is stating what are information while Boon is talking more forensic. Both are needed for us to make a judgement call. As to positive "interest expense" it is as possible as positive tax expense. They are on accrual and estimate basis and my "guess" is the "writeback" is due to the "pending" IPO happening soon. I use "pending" because it had been "pending" for past 2 years, even before the SHK CB matured and the creation of Cayman / HK entity.

There lies my intrigue with the CBs. How do the auditors even know how to value these CBs when they have matured? Does anyone knows what is the status of these CBs? Matured? Defaulted? Restructured? Seems like it has just been conveniently rolled over like a revolver with no maturity date. I've never seen anything like this before... can someone confirm as I could be uninformed since I hadn't follow it for past 8 months or so.

The argument is of course CB holders wants to convert into GF stock... but do they have the right to exercise that "option" when the call already expired? I turned more positive on SinoG when the Chairman said they have cash and are going to pay back both CBs during the AGM last year. I think it would be huge positive if they do that cause it shows they have real cold hard cash and 2ndly it benefits SinoG shareholders not to share their crown jewel. From their cashflow statement it seems they haven't even started paying CB interest in cold hard cash.

But it didn't happen. To paraphrase Keynes, when facts change what do you do sir? Let's just assume if you are the CB holder and you have not seen anything come out of the CB, not even cashflow... what would you do? If for argument sake, say you know there is no cash, would you dance?

So i remain intrigued: The mgt has not been credible past few years but credible investors had sunk money in, including Goldman book running the CB (which is actually EB, Exchangeable Bond) and CB holders holding out (based on whatever unknown legality).

What I am keen to know is who are the sponsors and auditor for the IPO? Thanks

NB Anyone looking at the results should ask what is "Deposit paid for non-current assets"... anyone expecting these capex? They also assumed a maturity date in their results to do the computation.

[desmondxyz]

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/_Alan_eF...eID=391423

ASDEW ACQUISITIONS aka Alan Wang is reducing its stake in SG. Interesting timing, isn't?

[CityFarmer]

Thank you, Mr. specuvestor for pulling everyone back to the bigger picture.

You save my day, buddy ;-)

Regards
Moderator

[BlueDogMeow]

Burning more cash, despite significantly drawing down on liabilities. Never knew deposits paid for non-current asset is considered a deferred asset (sarcasm here). Consolidating the "receivables" and one can see receivables growth are accelerating. Add back in options value? Never knew discount rate accretion have such an effect. Negative profits before change in options value...I am sure this is a good sign for the existing shareholders.

[BlueDogMeow]

Burning more cash, despite significantly drawing down on liabilities. Never knew deposits paid for non-current asset is considered a deferred asset (sarcasm here). Consolidating the "receivables" and one can see receivables growth are accelerating. Add back in options value? Never knew discount rate accretion have such an effect. Negative profits before change in options value...I am sure this is a good sign for the existing shareholders.

[Boon]

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/SGFIG%20...eID=391351
 
Page 5 of FY2015 results:
 
Deposit for non-current asset = RMB 570.777 million in 4Q2015
 
WOW !
 
Welcome back Specuvestor !
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[chinafarmer]

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/SGFIG%20...eID=391351
 
Page 5 of FY2015 results:
 
Deposit for non-current asset = RMB 570.777 million in 4Q2015
 
WOW !
 
Wellcome back Specuvestor !
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Net cash used in investing 
activities amounted to RMB711.6 million in FY2015, which was due mainly to acquisition of property, 
plant and equipment in Hubei, Anhui, Shanxian and Shanxi plants

[Wildreamz]

There lies my intrigue with the CBs. How do the auditors even know how to value these CBs when they have matured? Does anyone knows what is the status of these CBs? Matured? Defaulted? Restructured? Seems like it has just been conveniently rolled over like a revolver with no maturity date. I've never seen anything like this before... can someone confirm as I could be uninformed since I hadn't follow it for past 8 months or so.

The argument is of course CB holders wants to convert into GF stock... but do they have the right to exercise that "option" when the call already expired? I turned more positive on SinoG when the Chairman said they have cash and are going to pay back both CBs during the AGM last year. I think it would be huge positive if they do that cause it shows they have real cold hard cash and 2ndly it benefits SinoG shareholders not to share their crown jewel. From their cashflow statement it seems they haven't even started paying CB interest in cold hard cash.

UNAUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31 DECEMBER 2015 (pg12)

Valuation of convertible bonds (“CB”) The CB holders are still in discussion with the Company to finalize the terms and details of the extension and/or partial repurchase of the convertible bonds. The structure of the CB will be revised in conjunction with the proposed listing of the Garden Fresh business segment. For the purpose of the valuation of CB as at 31 December 2015, the fair value of the CB will be made on the assumption that the extension is made up to 31 December 2016 of the CB while pending the finalisation of the terms of the CB. The Board will announce the revised valuation of the CB once the terms have been finalised.

(II)
Note A : The increase in finance costs relating to convertible bond is mainly due to the assumed extension of the CB to 31 December 2016. The increase in fair value of the option derivatives relating to convertible bond is mainly due to the fair value estimation of the convertible bonds which is assumed to expire by 31 December 2016.
Note B : The increase in finance costs relating to convertible bond is mainly due to the amortization of the liability component of the convertible bond for the year ended 31 December 2014. The increase in fair value of the option derivatives relating to convertible bond is mainly due to the fair value estimation of the convertible bond as at the date of the period under review.