Sino Grandness

[CityFarmer]

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Moderators have discovered and reasonably confirmed, two accounts belong to a same person in this thread. One of the account has been banned.

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[Wildreamz]

Moderator log:

Moderators have discovered and reasonably confirmed, two accounts belong to a same person in this thread. One of the account has been banned.

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Would it be better to reveal the names of the duplicate accounts so we could make better judgement of the past and future content that he posts?

Thanks for the vigilance.

[roxhockey]

Guys, simple question - why is it so hard for them to get this IPO started? An IPO is a process that is solely in their control to prepare and execute - whether the price is good depends on the market but even that seems reasonably supportive. If the company is motivated to get this done surely they could have a prospectus and financials ready to go by now? Is there any reasonable explanation I'm missing?

[Oldman9]

.............. Looking forward to the IPO. Hope it turns out well. Wondering what the IPO price will be for Garden fresh and what the stock value of Sino Grandness will be by then. Understand the valuation of F&B business in Hong Kong is around 16 to 25x. Oldman agak agak only. Does anyone know? Can Garden Fresh fetch such a valuation?

I read somewhere (oldman forgot where I read from), that management will give special dividend to shareholders once IPO goes through. Anyone knows how much will be given? And normally how soon will such dividends be paid?

It may not be realistic to hope for a bumper special dividend and other benefits that may come with a successful IPO of Garden Fresh.

Sino Grandness is making no such assumption, and has been preparing for the contingency that bondholders want to cash out if Garden Fresh fails to get listed soon.

Sino is talking to international banks to borrow more to meet possible bond redemption. (On 31 Jan 15, it had RMB 300m in cash and RMB 150m untapped credit lines from PRC banks.)

Bondholders are entitled to RMB 650m if no application for listing is submitted. Otherwise, the amount will reduce to RMB 580m.

Sino's 2014 profit was much higher than the reported RMB 233m. This reported profit was the result of deducting three one-off items:
(1) non-cash penalty interest expenses (RMB 206m) related to convertible bonds,
(2) non-cash changes in fair value of option derivatives (RMB 112m) related to convertible bonds, and
(3) cash penalty interest (RMB 17m) paid to holders who redeemed 19.5m bonds in Oct 14.

2014 profit was therefore RMB 468m after adding back the three one-off items.

This profit should enable Sino to borrow RMB 300m, say, to redeem all convertible bonds.

Combined borrowings of RMB 504m (existing RMB 54m + untapped RMB 150m from PRC banks + RMB 300m from international banks) are not excessive in relation to equity of RMB 1,576m, as gearing is just 32% (compared with Huiyuan's 41%).

The RMB 468m profit amounts to an EPS of 15 S'pore cents. Alongside the 51-S'pore cent NAV, the current 31c share price is undemanding.

A successful IPO of Garden Fresh is a bonus. A failed attempt would not spell doom because Sino has planned for such contingency.

Hi Portuser

thank you for taking time to answer/update. Much appreciated.
I understand that the IPO is not 100% and so is the special dividend but if it does go through then it is good. So far no one has given me an answer on the valuation of Garden fresh if its listed..do you mind share something?

By the way, you mentioned that it is not all doom if the IPO does not materialize as the company has planned for contingency. That, I agree with you but in my humble opinion IPO is the catalyst to share price appreciation else the share price will continue to trade between 20cts to 50cts for a long time. Will this be the case unless another catalyst appears?

Again thank you for taking time to answer.

Oldman9

[CityFarmer]

Moderator log:

Moderators have discovered and reasonably confirmed, two accounts belong to a same person in this thread. One of the account has been banned.

Thank you

Regards
Moderator

Would it be better to reveal the names of the duplicate accounts so we could make better judgement of the past and future content that he posts?

Thanks for the vigilance.

VB encourage buddies to focus on the content, rather than the person behind it. Moderator will do the job to filter the "noises". Revealing the names, will divert the focus unnecessary, and will waste our valuable time.

Thank you

Regards
Moderator

[Curiousparty]

Tks the Moderators for their hard work..

Sometimes, it could be the work of one "BIG Mastermind" behind the scene asking various forumers to post the various views (e.g. one asking an innocent question and another one attempting to reply it). This way, it would seem as if the forum is well patronized and discussed but actually, it is just the manipulation of that one big master mind. Since the forumers are using different IP addresses, there is no way for the moderators to "catch" this type of situation.

tks.

Moderator log:

Moderators have discovered and reasonably confirmed, two accounts belong to a same person in this thread. One of the account has been banned.

Thank you

Regards
Moderator

Would it be better to reveal the names of the duplicate accounts so we could make better judgement of the past and future content that he posts?

Thanks for the vigilance.

VB encourage buddies to focus on the content, rather than the person behind it. Moderator will do the job to filter the "noises". Revealing the names, will divert the focus unnecessary, and will waste our valuable time.

Thank you

Regards
Moderator

[$wise]

It is against my principle to plea caution on other people’s counter, especial for one I’ m not vested.
I have the following to share.

I confess, I still do not know much about this counter, simply because too many people are trying too hard to sell this counter,
as such, I have become skeptical and shut my ears for any sexy stories and just enjoy all the fairy-tale that comes along.

I first knew nothing about it but caught my eyes because this has been (probably) the most frequently recommended counter, recently.
I couldn’t resist but did my brief deal diligence as well.
In their website, I was initially impressed (like many viewers would) with the full-automation and the excellent presentation.
My sixth sense told me that someone is trying extremely hard, this one I have to be careful.

I am equally curious about this counter but choose to remain ignorant.
All I know is that it is a Orange Juice company, it is a china company.
Sometime, it pays better not to know too much.

It’s just my wild guess, I hope , I am wrong for this one.
If you are ready for a high-risk-high-return, I wish you the best of luck.

[Oldman9]

It is against my principle to plea caution on other people’s counter, especial for one I’ m not vested.
I have the following to share.

I confess, I still do not know much about this counter, simply because too many people are trying too hard to sell this counter,
as such, I have become skeptical and shut my ears for any sexy stories and just enjoy all the fairy-tale that comes along.

I first knew nothing about it but caught my eyes because this has been (probably) the most frequently recommended counter, recently.
I couldn’t resist but did my brief deal diligence as well.
In their website, I was initially impressed (like many viewers would) with the full-automation and the excellent presentation.
My sixth sense told me that someone is trying extremely hard, this one I have to be careful.

I am equally curious about this counter but choose to remain ignorant.
All I know is that it is a Orange Juice company, it is a china company.
Sometime, it pays better not to know too much.

It’s just my wild guess, I hope , I am wrong for this one.
If you are ready for a high-risk-high-return, I wish you the best of luck.

Hi Mr Wise,

Thanks for your post.

But oldman here cannot understand what you are trying to bring across.
In hokkien may i ask, Lu kong si mi ?

Sorry oldman paiseh, because oldman cannot understand how come after your hard work and due diligence, you only come to two conclusion. One being, it is a china company and then the other is that this company is a orange juice counter. 50% pass for you.

It is very obvious that this counter is not a japanese or korean company... but but, you really over do it with your claim that this is a orange juice company. I hope you don't talk down counter for the sake of talking down , oldman nearly fell of the chair after reading, aiyo.

Thanks.

Oldman come in peace and oldman go in peace.

oldman9

[Oldman9]

Guys, simple question - why is it so hard for them to get this IPO started? An IPO is a process that is solely in their control to prepare and execute - whether the price is good depends on the market but even that seems reasonably supportive. If the company is motivated to get this done surely they could have a prospectus and financials ready to go by now? Is there any reasonable explanation I'm missing?

Hi roxhockey

From my limited understanding based on what I read, the IPO is done by their sponsor and totally out of Sino Grandness control. Oldman thinks that the management will act only when instructed by their sponsors. Step by step. Maybe other forum members can help clarify.

oldman9

[Bluechipfan]

Update on Proposed Spin-Off
http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Sino_Gra...eID=338033

SINO GRANDNESS TO PARTICIPATE AT CHENGDU TRADE EXHIBITION
BETWEEN 22-26 MARCH 2015
http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Sino_Gra...eID=338034

Nothing really interesting to me accept maybe: Commissioned Euromonitor International to conduct independent market research

(vested)

I got a hunch it's about time to take a long position. The biggest problem is people don't trust s-chips. Especially those that didn't pay dividend even though the company concerned is clearly a growth company. In this internet age, it is easy to spread fear than instil confidence when something 'seems' to be wrong. I would not go into the balance sheet and financial statement and the impending IPO because non believer would just brush it off as 'fake'. I just ask myself what if I am the bondholder, the creditor banks, the thai investors? All of them throwing money into this piece of Sh** company? I think the price has come down low enough for me to consider taking a long position.

So far on paper profit...

Well, I come to this site less and less nowadays and in fact, I stay away from SJ too for some time already. Now I only check in here occasionally as I still value some forumers' posts, just like I do for the nextinsight site. I thought we are all retail investors but instead, there seems to be a lot of full time campaigners and a lot of them are simply bias. As has confirmed by the moderator, some even use multiple accounts to serve their need, whatever their need may be. Some even use multiple accounts across all shares forums to post things that they believe will serve their need or purpose.

It serves me well so far by staying away from share forums. Nowadays even if I check in, I will avoid certain thread(s) as the postings therein are too predictable. Many here are also behaving like mini Iceberg, it make me wonder if you are not vested, talk so much for what? Even if the company gone bust or share price sky rocketed, it also make absolutely no different to your pocket.