Sino Grandness

[specuvestor]

I assume your friend is very young

You have to know who are the insiders rather than those that talk big. There is a difference. There are lots of the latter in the broking industry because their gift is the gap

Taiwan epitomises this very well. They have a lot of subscribed "newsfeeds" with different tiers say 1 to 3. those tier 2 subscribers will receive info much later than those in tier 1. And those tier 3 by the time they receive the info, it would already been stale

Then there is of course timing/ execution vs info. Those who refuse to subscribe FB thinking it's a fluke was right for a whole year. Those who subscribed would have been right if they held on. Both are correct... depends on your timing and period you talking about. Your friend's timing of catalysts may be too green even if info is right

As per my past signature: It's not about being right, it's about being left. Your friend is not left standing

I am vested.

That said, I am not sure I would trust UOBKH.

I have a UOBKH broker friend that tells me that he has inside news that Sino Grandness is "fake", half a year ago; that said, for the 1 year that he worked in UOBKH, he has lose ALL the salary he made in that 12 months, trading on "inside news". Now he sells insurance or something.

So much for "inside news"...

[leeeta]

Dont think it is UOBKH as a whole but some individuals

1. if SinoG is fake, then Mr Huang is a very skillful conman. Too skillful that he is even able to con old hand Mr Mahagitsiri who is in the business for donkey years..and not only that, he must have cast some strong spells to get them lock up shares for 10yrs. The lo quat juice spell must be very potent that even Mr Mahagitsiri made up his mind to invest after a sip.

With the placement (approx. $40M if offer price is 50cts), SinoG now would have an enlarged shares of 670M and they have to fork out $10M dividend every year as required. $10M a year for $40M one time - not a good business deal. So whats the catch - Could there be a JV in the making? Expansion to Thailand or SEA or even business network ..Nestle comes to mind..???!!! Is Huang looking for further growth/expansion through this partnership?

2. Ok, lets say they manage to fake it in China because whole China is fake. But to take this to another level - Hong Kong, I dont think they can succeed if they are fake. I dont see how they can get past Wellcome HK which is controlled by Dairy farm and Hinsang, a listed company in HK , their appointed distributor. Dont these guys do checks as well? By the way Wellcome have stores also in China, they would have gotten information on the products and the sales figures.

3. The ipo process... - I bet that the IPO Mgr has read the shortseller report and would have done triple checks. Dont you think he or she is stupid? He/She would have resigned by now if there are any fraudulent figures. More info on the IPO here.. http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php?opt...5&Itemid=1

[Curiousparty]

The logical train of thought processes and the assumption that due diligence has been done properly may not always be applicable to S-chips.
(IMHO)

tks.

Dont think it is UOBKH as a whole but some individuals
3. The ipo process... - I bet that the IPO Mgr has read the shortseller report and would have done triple checks. Dont you think he or she is stupid? He/She would have resigned by now if there are any fraudulent figures. More info on the IPO here.. http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php?opt...5&Itemid=1

[Tiggerbee]

Dont think it is UOBKH as a whole but some individuals

1. if SinoG is fake, then Mr Huang is a very skillful conman. Too skillful that he is even able to con old hand Mr Mahagitsiri who is in the business for donkey years..and not only that, he must have cast some strong spells to get them lock up shares for 10yrs. The lo quat juice spell must be very potent that even Mr Mahagitsiri made up his mind to invest after a sip.

With the placement (approx. $40M if offer price is 50cts), SinoG now would have an enlarged shares of 670M and they have to fork out $10M dividend every year as required. $10M a year for $40M one time - not a good business deal. So whats the catch - Could there be a JV in the making? Expansion to Thailand or SEA or even business network ..Nestle comes to mind..???!!! Is Huang looking for further growth/expansion through this partnership?

2. Ok, lets say they manage to fake it in China because whole China is fake. But to take this to another level - Hong Kong, I dont think they can succeed if they are fake. I dont see how they can get past Wellcome HK which is controlled by Dairy farm and Hinsang, a listed company in HK , their appointed distributor. Dont these guys do checks as well? By the way Wellcome have stores also in China, they would have gotten information on the products and the sales figures.

3. The ipo process... - I bet that the IPO Mgr has read the shortseller report and would have done triple checks. Dont you think he or she is stupid? He/She would have resigned by now if there are any fraudulent figures. More info on the IPO here.. http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php?opt...5&Itemid=1

There are so many s chips that are suspended. Did their ipo underwriter carried out their due diligence? On the other hand, you can't assume all s chips are dubious due to a few black sheep. That's why we should be very careful and do our due diligence when investing in stocks with a short listing history. A fraudulent company is unlikely to withstand the test of time. I prefer investing in companies with at least 10 years of listing history.

For me, Sino Grandness has very poor corporate governance so I avoid this stock no matter how cheap it is. It also score "poor" in its ability to manage its cash flow.

[leeeta]

Dont think it is UOBKH as a whole but some individuals

1. if SinoG is fake, then Mr Huang is a very skillful conman. Too skillful that he is even able to con old hand Mr Mahagitsiri who is in the business for donkey years..and not only that, he must have cast some strong spells to get them lock up shares for 10yrs. The lo quat juice spell must be very potent that even Mr Mahagitsiri made up his mind to invest after a sip.

With the placement (approx. $40M if offer price is 50cts), SinoG now would have an enlarged shares of 670M and they have to fork out $10M dividend every year as required. $10M a year for $40M one time - not a good business deal. So whats the catch - Could there be a JV in the making? Expansion to Thailand or SEA or even business network ..Nestle comes to mind..???!!! Is Huang looking for further growth/expansion through this partnership?

2. Ok, lets say they manage to fake it in China because whole China is fake. But to take this to another level - Hong Kong, I dont think they can succeed if they are fake. I dont see how they can get past Wellcome HK which is controlled by Dairy farm and Hinsang, a listed company in HK , their appointed distributor. Dont these guys do checks as well? By the way Wellcome have stores also in China, they would have gotten information on the products and the sales figures.

3. The ipo process... - I bet that the IPO Mgr has read the shortseller report and would have done triple checks. Dont you think he or she is stupid? He/She would have resigned by now if there are any fraudulent figures. More info on the IPO here.. http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php?opt...5&Itemid=1

There are so many s chips that are suspended. Did their ipo underwriter carried out their due diligence? On the other hand, you can't assume all s chips are dubious due to a few black sheep. That's why we should be very careful and do our due diligence when investing in stocks with a short listing history.

For me, Sino Grandness has very poor corporate governance do I avoid this stock no matter how cheap it is.

That was then..Now listing in HK is much more stringent.

[specuvestor]

^^ agree... approach has to be balanced rather than pavlovian biased. Value investors always forget it's better to buy good company at fair price rather than fair company at good price. And good company generally means it has a long track record and business model is not broken

IMHO the best auditor is TTA when they announce their audit report ie when they plonk their money in at what price.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2012/0507/f...aters.html

[leeeta]

^^ agree... approach has to be balanced rather than pavlovian biased. Value investors always forget it's better to buy good company at fair price rather than fair company at good price. And good company generally means it has a long track record and business model is not broken

IMHO the best auditor is TTA when they announce their audit report ie when they plonk their money in at what price.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2012/0507/f...aters.html

Agree.. like in the case of creative..the stock price over years crashed from high of $60 to below $2 even tho they may have got good corp governance, been in business over donkey yrs, Singaporean company but..still tank when business condition changes. Anything could happen and that is why investment is a risk. If we are comfortable with the risk, done our DD, then we invest.

[leeeta]

Dont think it is UOBKH as a whole but some individuals

1. if SinoG is fake, then Mr Huang is a very skillful conman. Too skillful that he is even able to con old hand Mr Mahagitsiri who is in the business for donkey years..and not only that, he must have cast some strong spells to get them lock up shares for 10yrs. The lo quat juice spell must be very potent that even Mr Mahagitsiri made up his mind to invest after a sip.

With the placement (approx. $40M if offer price is 50cts), SinoG now would have an enlarged shares of 670M and they have to fork out $10M dividend every year as required. $10M a year for $40M one time - not a good business deal. So whats the catch - Could there be a JV in the making? Expansion to Thailand or SEA or even business network ..Nestle comes to mind..???!!! Is Huang looking for further growth/expansion through this partnership?

2. Ok, lets say they manage to fake it in China because whole China is fake. But to take this to another level - Hong Kong, I dont think they can succeed if they are fake. I dont see how they can get past Wellcome HK which is controlled by Dairy farm and Hinsang, a listed company in HK , their appointed distributor. Dont these guys do checks as well? By the way Wellcome have stores also in China, they would have gotten information on the products and the sales figures.

3. The ipo process... - I bet that the IPO Mgr has read the shortseller report and would have done triple checks. Dont you think he or she is stupid? He/She would have resigned by now if there are any fraudulent figures. More info on the IPO here.. http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php?opt...5&Itemid=1

There are so many s chips that are suspended. Did their ipo underwriter carried out their due diligence? On the other hand, you can't assume all s chips are dubious due to a few black sheep. That's why we should be very careful and do our due diligence when investing in stocks with a short listing history. A fraudulent company is unlikely to withstand the test of time. I prefer investing in companies with at least 10 years of listing history.

For me, Sino Grandness has very poor corporate governance so I avoid this stock no matter how cheap it is. It also score "poor" in its ability to manage its cash flow.

i hope you are not into companies like IPCO, Creative, Uniber etc..they hv withstood the test of time but share price keeps on spiraling down. IPCO was a blue chip before..but share price kaput.

Perhaps you can enlighten me why you say that they hv poor corporate governance, I may change my position if its really true.

I like the fact that The CEO flies down to SG for every Qtrly financial report briefing, How many of S-chip's ceo does that? and he was here the next day after the shortseller report was out to calm investors confidence.

You are right that cash flow is a problem but shareholders were briefed that they are growing rapidly and they needed cash for expansion. So whatever they earn is pile back. With the placement to the Thai's, they have more now for cash in the pocket. Cash from Thaicoon are not meant to pay off the CB holders..understand during the briefing that if the IPO is delayed of does not go through for whatever reason they will get a bank loan to pay off CB holders when CB is due.

[thor666]

Just my 2 cents..

Buying any stock, not just s-chips, have possibility of fraud or corruption.
No one can guarantee a stock even like Cola cola, will be squeaky clean. It may well be that the big corporations have better corporate governance and have ring fence massive corruption through various ways.

Even when I am vested in Osim on another thread, I will not rule out questionable accounting practices. Forummer have pointed out that the financial report indicates a high percentage of goodwill which may be overvalued (amongst other questions), that I agree.

As an individual investor, I think it is best to consider this: rather than disputing whether a stock may be subject to fraud, think of whether you are all right if a stock price goes to zero. Many people are blinded by the discussion of owning a stock, growing attached to it and finding all facts to justify. Others are burnt by their first experiences and view with colored lens. Either way, it is cognitive bias. Be sure not to double down on a stock if you notice yourself having that bias.

I have osim at around 15% of my current portfolio, and I accept the risk of losing my 15%. I am also ready to sell and make a loss if I find concrete facts showing that the business is far from what I envisioned.

In short, never fall in love with a single stock. Diversify appropriately to your own profile.

The 2 sides of the discussion for sino do deserve their merits, if u are on one side, be sure to open your mind to the other side, and contribute your thoughts.

(Not vested. But enjoying the informative discussions. Thank you valuebuddies.)




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Arowana]

The Buddhas in Thailand is powerful. Mr Mahagitsiri is well protected from paying S$ 0.61 per share.

It was a piece of fatty meat which has almost gone into Huang's mouth. Too bad Newsman9 screw it up.

We have so many talks here, we ague, we guess, we judge, we infer, we predict but so far the company speaks very little as it is guilty or something?

The share price was around S$ 0.70 before the saga and now S$ 0.39. If no wind to blow where got see waves up?

If the business is really so good as reported and future is so bright as we were told, Why Huang still want to sell his company at more than 40% discount??

Will you? You no need a MBA, just use your commonsense.

I know there are many lovers and supporter of Sino Grandness here.
I must confess I was one. Now I am out of denial mode.

As I say in this thread before I have sold all shares. Blessed to have done so as the price now is another 21% lower.