The Coming Crash (no later than 1H2012)?

[Thriftville]

Really? Can you really join the ELITES
The real ELITES of Singapore are all chosen from among the Yamen's top scholars,top army's generals, of course there are exception like 'kaki lang"- the very young & greenhorn recent lady candidate who ride on the coattail of group election system, recently. They say she will be earning up to a $million easily after just 5 year term as an MP.
Will you consider a doctor practising in the HDB's heartland an Elite too?
I don't think so if you ask him. Taking him as a base of comparison i think many professionals don't consider themselves as belonging to the Elitist's class. Middle or upper middle class maybe?

Well... the policy also favours shareholders like us! With more FT, profit margin will be better and companies will become more competitive. I guess it's a good news to buddies in this forum!

[Musicwhiz]

Really? Can you really join the ELITES
The real ELITES of Singapore are all chosen from among the Yamen's top scholars,top army's generals, of course there are exception like 'kaki lang"- the very young & greenhorn recent lady candidate who ride on the coattail of group election system, recently. They say she will be earning up to a $million easily after just 5 year term as an MP.
Will you consider a doctor practising in the HDB's heartland an Elite too?
I don't think so if you ask him. Taking him as a base of comparison i think many professionals don't consider themselves as belonging to the Elitist's class. Middle or upper middle class maybe?

The problem is that the elites in any country are a small closed group of people who do a lot of "in-breeding" as I call it. They hardly let anyone in except close friends and it's a well-known fact that sons/daughters of doctors have better chances of getting into Medical School. So the elites will stay elites, and never know the suffering of the common man.

That's essentially the problem with this country, I feel. The middle-class can never aspire to break free from their "prison", and will be trapped in middle-class, because of lack of opportunities; and of course huge mortgage debt.

[kazukirai]

That's essentially the problem with this country, I feel. The middle-class can never aspire to break free from their "prison", and will be trapped in middle-class, because of lack of opportunities; and of course huge mortgage debt.

Actually, I'm interested to know how we should define middle-class?

Based on Income? Net worth? Is it possible that many of us view ourselves as middle class when someone who's poor might think we're rich?

[Musicwhiz]

Actually, I'm interested to know how we should define middle-class?

Based on Income? Net worth? Is it possible that many of us view ourselves as middle class when someone who's poor might think we're rich?

My definition is based on median income. If you earn more than median income, you can be considered middle-class. Of course, you can probably further stratify it into lower-middle and upper-middle class, but let's not get into that!

[kazukirai]

My definition is based on median income. If you earn more than median income, you can be considered middle-class.

Thanks MW! And what markers would you be looking for to know when you have escaped the middle-class 'prison'?

I'm pretty sure the markers will be very subjective and up to each of us to define. The end game is probably freedom over our time and options to pursue what we value in life but just wondering what your own markers are.

Would like to hear from all Buddies too.

[Musicwhiz]

Thanks MW! And what markers would you be looking for to know when you have escaped the middle-class 'prison'?

Oh, I am actually working on a blog post on this right now. Interesting that you asked haha.

It will be about monitoring and reviewing your total asset position monthly (as well as all aspects of your finances like cash flow, savings, investments, CPF balances, mortgage loan balance and investments like equities, bonds etc) and to see if your passive income is increasing at a good rate.

So watch out for it in the next few days!

[Temperament]

Thanks MW! And what markers would you be looking for to know when you have escaped the middle-class 'prison'?

Oh, I am actually working on a blog post on this right now. Interesting that you asked haha.

It will be about monitoring and reviewing your total asset position monthly (as well as all aspects of your finances like cash flow, savings, investments, CPF balances, mortgage loan balance and investments like equities, bonds etc) and to see if your passive income is increasing at a good rate.

So watch out for it in the next few days!

Hi MW,

Your coming article is going to be very interesting and timely for us. My wife is going to stop working soon. We really have to monitor all the incomes from our IGA(Income Generating Assets) - Whether we can afford not to work another day if we don't want to? Whether the incomes generated can offset our total monthly expenditure and then some? Or whether we have to tightened our belt and then is O. K.? Or we have no choice but to look for part time job, or even full time job?

My mental calculation of the incomes from our IGA is slightly more than enough for our present lifestyles, without touching any of our assets or savings.
That's the "secret" of not running out of money until your last day and leaving a legacy behind for your offsprings as recommended by classic financial planning books/articles. On the other hand, we may upgrade our lifestyle if we leave behind a lesser legacy for our only son.
Well, planning is one thing, actual outcome maybe better or worse. Of course we hope for the better that's why we plan.

And i hope i can use some of your ideas from your coming post.
Cheers!

[wsreader]

If a couple has sufficient IGA to last until last day, does it follow that their only child will also not need to work for income, since the child will inherit the IGA ?

[brattzz]

If a couple has sufficient IGA to last until last day, does it follow that their only child will also not need to work for income, since the child will inherit the IGA ?

This can only work when IGA beats inflation yoy.

for the the 30 yrs old couple, now till +40yrs old,

for the 0 yr old child, now till +70 yrs old?
NPV i think kicks in..

[Jared Seah]

Hello Kazukirai,

I can give my take on what's my "alternative" definition of "middle-class". It's our mind-set.

If you ask most Singaporeans, we will define ourselves as "middle-class" - even though we may live in 2 or 1.5 half room HDBs, or in condos and in landed properties. And it does not matter whether we have income or no income.

How to define a person's class if he has no income? If Steve Jobs earns $1, is he below the median income definition? I am business owner, I declare a low income to avoid tax, can? Charge all my personal expenses to ah kong? That's one advantage of having a business - you have more room to "wriggle" compared to salaried hired hands.

Due to upbringing or religious beliefs, some wealthy people will never call themselves upper-class or rich. And due to pride or fortitude, less well off people will also never call themselves low-class or poor. These people (which includes me) don't want to be stuck with labelling trap.

To do so may mean we fall into the "eugenics trap" preferred by the "elites"... If I REALLY want to be a doctor, and I can't get into local U, I will find a way to be doctor somehow.

I remember a very motivating Sec 2 geography teacher once told us "less good" students: "Smart students spend 10 minutes reading can understand, good students spend 1 hour. But if you need 8 hours, so be it! Don't focus on what's fair or not fair. Focus on whether you WILLING to spend the time you need to understand. Smart students who not willing or not interested to spend the 10 minutes will also fail..."