Best World

[weijian]

Moderator's note:

- I think forumer Squirrel has done a great job doing some moderation work! ("come up with facts and research, rather than outright denial") and i would just like to add Moderator's thoughts on this.

- In CSE's thread, forumer HitandRun worded it so nicely and i take the liberty to produce it here again - "If one cannot take criticism on the counter that one purchases, I think the market will discipline you sooner or later"

- This forum is valuebuddies.com. As the name suggests and it has been practiced, long/short opinions are welcomed to act as balanced views.

- As to the question of vesting, i noticed it has been raised up a few times. There is no requirement/rule that a VB needs to disclose whether they are vested or not, although it will be good to do so. I do note that long/short reports by various fund/asset managers etc will declare their interest (long or short) to add credit-ability into their publication. Of course, these declarations can be audited but may not for the case of VB.com. For VBs who are still interested to know whether Boon's vested or not, I think he has given his reply - so there is no point asking anymore. I understand why they ask (those who ask) - It feels safer to be inside a crowd. But let me remind that in investing, feeling safe inside a crowd, is NOT safe.

- If you believe something inappropriate has been posted, then do use the "report" option and Moderators will look into it.

[VIChris]

Try google/baidu “非法传销"。

Being investigated or reported as being investigated could sometimes be very damaging to share price and reputation which could in turn lead to lawsuits etc

Are you still vested, Boon?
From the initial excitement of sharing of the company past performance to now, questioning the BWI's business model in China.
You have a 360 degrees change of view on this company.
Why not state your position whether you are still vested, at least we know your position.

Applause to chialc88, at least he state his position.

Cheers!

Whether Chialc88 is still vested or not, it wouldn’t make any difference to Boon.
 
Whether Boon is still vested or not, it shouldn’t make any difference to anyone, should it?
 
If it should, what difference would it be ?

It does. If you are vested, would you bash the company like what you did for the past few days?
Though I believe your intention is good, but you have to be sensitive as there are many who are vested in this company and because of your bashing (yet to be verified whether they did what you suspect), it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.

Hope you understand where I'm coming. Thanks for your sharing on this company.

Cheers

VIChris, what I am going to say might be offensive to you, so if you do not want to read it please skip!



From your statement of "it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.", first I derive that you are vested. Secondly, I imply that you think that there is something fishy going on with the company, or else you will not be afraid that others take note of this situation. Of course these are all just guesses.

What's in my opinion as well is that

1) Yes Boon has been bashing the company recently, but its only as much as he was promoting it in the past if you go all the way back, kinda fair if you ask me. People just don't like their holdings being bashed.
2) As everyone agrees, regulatory risk is always the BIGGEST risk associated with MLM/DS. This is a topic that cannot be avoided
3) It is absolutely necessary that these are raised in the forum. Even though you are vested and don't like what you are hearing, there might be investors waiting in the sidelines ready to jump in. There might be other vested individuals who need a voice of reason to balance the arguments for them. Asking Boon to shut up is not a solution.
4) And perhaps lastly, it might save people the pain that they go through for Noble or certain shipping firms/trusts if they had made an informed decision after going through the forum. I am not saying that BW is going that direction, but if in any circumstances it did, everyone can say they made an informed decision.

Look. I know vested interests don't like what they are seeing being said, but I believe the digging is for the greater good.

For all those bashing Boon and insisting to know whether he is vested (which you are only trying to infer that he is slandering the firm because he is out). If you don't like what you are seeing because you believe the firm has not done anything wrong, back it up with facts and research! Asking Boon to shut up is not an answer. Don't deprive of the rest of information that is vital to the investment thesis underlying this counter specifically.

To straighten up record, I have mentioned his intention is good, but its the way he wrote it. Please go and read it again before jumping the boat.
Anyway, we are all adults and I will not comment any further on this topic.

But just to be caution, any accusation to a company without evidence might result in a lawsuit which I hope no one will be facing such problem.
However, if the discussion is meant for educational purpose, then the choice of words must be correctly use.

Have a great National Day ahead.

Cheers!

[weijian]

To straighten up record, I have mentioned his intention is good, but its the way he wrote it. Please go and read it again before jumping the boat.
Anyway, we are all adults and I will not comment any further on this topic.

But just to be caution, any accusation to a company without evidence might result in a lawsuit which I hope no one will be facing such problem.
However, if the discussion is meant for educational purpose, then the choice of words must be correctly use.

Have a great National Day ahead.

Cheers!

A reminder again below:

- If you believe something inappropriate has been posted, then do use the "report" option and Moderators will look into it.

Moderator

[cfa]

Illegal MLM Activities in China
静海每天出动6000余人打击传销 对部分窝点断水断电


http://www.sohu.com/a/163235122_123753?_f=index_news_6

[DCF]

Are you still vested, Boon?
From the initial excitement of sharing of the company past performance to now, questioning the BWI's business model in China.
You have a 360 degrees change of view on this company.
Why not state your position whether you are still vested, at least we know your position.

Applause to chialc88, at least he state his position.

Cheers!

Whether Chialc88 is still vested or not, it wouldn’t make any difference to Boon.
 
Whether Boon is still vested or not, it shouldn’t make any difference to anyone, should it?
 
If it should, what difference would it be ?

It does. If you are vested, would you bash the company like what you did for the past few days?
Though I believe your intention is good, but you have to be sensitive as there are many who are vested in this company and because of your bashing (yet to be verified whether they did what you suspect), it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.

Hope you understand where I'm coming. Thanks for your sharing on this company.

Cheers

VIChris, what I am going to say might be offensive to you, so if you do not want to read it please skip!



From your statement of "it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.", first I derive that you are vested. Secondly, I imply that you think that there is something fishy going on with the company, or else you will not be afraid that others take note of this situation. Of course these are all just guesses.

What's in my opinion as well is that

1) Yes Boon has been bashing the company recently, but its only as much as he was promoting it in the past if you go all the way back, kinda fair if you ask me. People just don't like their holdings being bashed.
2) As everyone agrees, regulatory risk is always the BIGGEST risk associated with MLM/DS. This is a topic that cannot be avoided
3) It is absolutely necessary that these are raised in the forum. Even though you are vested and don't like what you are hearing, there might be investors waiting in the sidelines ready to jump in. There might be other vested individuals who need a voice of reason to balance the arguments for them. Asking Boon to shut up is not a solution.
4) And perhaps lastly, it might save people the pain that they go through for Noble or certain shipping firms/trusts if they had made an informed decision after going through the forum. I am not saying that BW is going that direction, but if in any circumstances it did, everyone can say they made an informed decision.

Look. I know vested interests don't like what they are seeing being said, but I believe the digging is for the greater good.

For all those bashing Boon and insisting to know whether he is vested (which you are only trying to infer that he is slandering the firm because he is out). If you don't like what you are seeing because you believe the firm has not done anything wrong, back it up with facts and research! Asking Boon to shut up is not an answer. Don't deprive of the rest of information that is vital to the investment thesis underlying this counter specifically.

No offence made.  For those who feel uncomfortable with BWI currently, the best strategy is to get rid of it.  Like that you can then sleep peacefully!  Like I said earlier, doing business in China is a big black box.  The ground is uneven.  Only the smartest and the shrewdest will survive.  The situation is very much different from that in Singapore where the law of the land rules and that's the reason why doing business here is so much easier because things are so much more transparent and that's also the reason why so many foreign ventures in China fail. Risk is high so are the rewards!

Agree completely. In fact, for company to perform in such competitive environment, they have to do what the law specifically allow, but more importantly, what law did not prohibit. In this case here, the law did not stop a Direct License holders from selling under wholesales models. The law also does not stop the wholesales provider from giving incentive and recognition to their sales agents.

Also over the long term, the consumers and other stakeholders will figure out who is ethical and who is not. As shareholders, we are one of the party that should hold them accountable for doing the right things in China. So if anyone feel uncomfortable, one should really talk to the management, or sell it.

I'm still vested as my own assessment is they are 合情， 合礼，合法. Take a look at the CSR and see how long they have been doing it

[karlmarx]

My 2 cents on this issue of being short and stating one's position.

1. Everyone is entitled to their long, or short, analysis on any security. Why should long-biased analysis be favoured and short-biased analysis be attacked? Is there a moral code where profits from a long position is preferred to profits from a short position?

2. All analyses, long-biased and short-biased, may be speculative. Does long-biased analysts not present optimistic scenarios which may not be grounded in firm reasoning and evidence?

3. All analyses, long-biased and short-biased, should be viewed as carrying an 'agenda.' Why do people who write long-biased posts not get labelled as 'someone with an agenda?' Could they not be seen as trying to get more people to push up the stock price?

4. There is no need to know one's position on any security, especially on an internet forum. After all, you couldn't ascertain, can you? The author's position should have no bearing on the reliability of his/her post. The focus should be on the study of his/her reasoning and evidence as presented; whether they support his/her conclusion, or not.

[Boon]

Whether Chialc88 is still vested or not, it wouldn’t make any difference to Boon.
 
Whether Boon is still vested or not, it shouldn’t make any difference to anyone, should it?
 
If it should, what difference would it be ?

It does. If you are vested, would you bash the company like what you did for the past few days?
Though I believe your intention is good, but you have to be sensitive as there are many who are vested in this company and because of your bashing (yet to be verified whether they did what you suspect), it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.

Hope you understand where I'm coming. Thanks for your sharing on this company.

Cheers

VIChris, what I am going to say might be offensive to you, so if you do not want to read it please skip!



From your statement of "it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.", first I derive that you are vested. Secondly, I imply that you think that there is something fishy going on with the company, or else you will not be afraid that others take note of this situation. Of course these are all just guesses.

What's in my opinion as well is that

1) Yes Boon has been bashing the company recently, but its only as much as he was promoting it in the past if you go all the way back, kinda fair if you ask me. People just don't like their holdings being bashed.
2) As everyone agrees, regulatory risk is always the BIGGEST risk associated with MLM/DS. This is a topic that cannot be avoided
3) It is absolutely necessary that these are raised in the forum. Even though you are vested and don't like what you are hearing, there might be investors waiting in the sidelines ready to jump in. There might be other vested individuals who need a voice of reason to balance the arguments for them. Asking Boon to shut up is not a solution.
4) And perhaps lastly, it might save people the pain that they go through for Noble or certain shipping firms/trusts if they had made an informed decision after going through the forum. I am not saying that BW is going that direction, but if in any circumstances it did, everyone can say they made an informed decision.

Look. I know vested interests don't like what they are seeing being said, but I believe the digging is for the greater good.

For all those bashing Boon and insisting to know whether he is vested (which you are only trying to infer that he is slandering the firm because he is out). If you don't like what you are seeing because you believe the firm has not done anything wrong, back it up with facts and research! Asking Boon to shut up is not an answer. Don't deprive of the rest of information that is vital to the investment thesis underlying this counter specifically.

No offence made.  For those who feel uncomfortable with BWI currently, the best strategy is to get rid of it.  Like that you can then sleep peacefully!  Like I said earlier, doing business in China is a big black box.  The ground is uneven.  Only the smartest and the shrewdest will survive.  The situation is very much different from that in Singapore where the law of the land rules and that's the reason why doing business here is so much easier because things are so much more transparent and that's also the reason why so many foreign ventures in China fail. Risk is high so are the rewards!

Agree completely. In fact, for company to perform in such competitive environment, they have to do what the law specifically allow, but more importantly, what law did not prohibit. In this case here, the law did not stop a Direct License holders from selling under wholesales models. The law also does not stop the wholesales provider from giving incentive and recognition to their sales agents.

Also over the long term, the consumers and other stakeholders will figure out who is ethical and who is not. As shareholders, we are one of the party that should hold them accountable for doing the right things in China. So if anyone feel uncomfortable, one should really talk to the management, or sell it.

I'm still vested as my own assessment is they are 合情， 合礼，合法. Take a look at the CSR and see how long they have been doing it

Moneyspinner is talking about "breaking the rules to stay competitive" and you are talking about "not breaking any laws to stay competitive. Are you talking about the "same thing"?

Did I say the Chinese law prohibit giving incentive ? You have not understood the point of contention.

[Temperament]

It does. If you are vested, would you bash the company like what you did for the past few days?
Though I believe your intention is good, but you have to be sensitive as there are many who are vested in this company and because of your bashing (yet to be verified whether they did what you suspect), it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.

Hope you understand where I'm coming. Thanks for your sharing on this company.

Cheers

VIChris, what I am going to say might be offensive to you, so if you do not want to read it please skip!



From your statement of "it might raise unnecessary attention to forum/financial magazine/investors which result in negative sentiment on the company.", first I derive that you are vested. Secondly, I imply that you think that there is something fishy going on with the company, or else you will not be afraid that others take note of this situation. Of course these are all just guesses.

What's in my opinion as well is that

1) Yes Boon has been bashing the company recently, but its only as much as he was promoting it in the past if you go all the way back, kinda fair if you ask me. People just don't like their holdings being bashed.
2) As everyone agrees, regulatory risk is always the BIGGEST risk associated with MLM/DS. This is a topic that cannot be avoided
3) It is absolutely necessary that these are raised in the forum. Even though you are vested and don't like what you are hearing, there might be investors waiting in the sidelines ready to jump in. There might be other vested individuals who need a voice of reason to balance the arguments for them. Asking Boon to shut up is not a solution.
4) And perhaps lastly, it might save people the pain that they go through for Noble or certain shipping firms/trusts if they had made an informed decision after going through the forum. I am not saying that BW is going that direction, but if in any circumstances it did, everyone can say they made an informed decision.

Look. I know vested interests don't like what they are seeing being said, but I believe the digging is for the greater good.

For all those bashing Boon and insisting to know whether he is vested (which you are only trying to infer that he is slandering the firm because he is out). If you don't like what you are seeing because you believe the firm has not done anything wrong, back it up with facts and research! Asking Boon to shut up is not an answer. Don't deprive of the rest of information that is vital to the investment thesis underlying this counter specifically.

No offence made.  For those who feel uncomfortable with BWI currently, the best strategy is to get rid of it.  Like that you can then sleep peacefully!  Like I said earlier, doing business in China is a big black box.  The ground is uneven.  Only the smartest and the shrewdest will survive.  The situation is very much different from that in Singapore where the law of the land rules and that's the reason why doing business here is so much easier because things are so much more transparent and that's also the reason why so many foreign ventures in China fail. Risk is high so are the rewards!

Agree completely. In fact, for company to perform in such competitive environment, they have to do what the law specifically allow, but more importantly, what law did not prohibit. In this case here, the law did not stop a Direct License holders from selling under wholesales models. The law also does not stop the wholesales provider from giving incentive and recognition to their sales agents.

Also over the long term, the consumers and other stakeholders will figure out who is ethical and who is not. As shareholders, we are one of the party that should hold them accountable for doing the right things in China. So if anyone feel uncomfortable, one should really talk to the management, or sell it.

I'm still vested as my own assessment is they are 合情， 合礼，合法. Take a look at the CSR and see how long they have been doing it

Moneyspinner is talking about "breaking the rules to stay competitive" and you are talking about "not breaking any laws to stay competitive. Are you talking about the "same thing"?

Did I say the Chinese law prohibit giving incentive ? You have not understood the point of contention.

[Temperament]

KAY CON BOH YUNG.

Put money take money.

Or a good night sleep!

[Squirrel]

Actually, there's a really straightforward way of figuring all this out.

Just like when someone is of doubt regarding a company's activities of reporting, you write to an IR. If you have questions, just need to write to MOFCOM to seek clarifications. Maybe someone can do that here. I have confidence in my level of proficiency in mandarin to do it if there is enough people asking for it here. Just not sure if I want to spend my time to do it.