Government determined to increase population to 7 mil in 2030.

(16-03-2014, 01:54 PM)Riderr2000 Wrote: HitandRun,

Since you were already wrong on your first presumption, I have no idea how to reply to the rest of your post.

I think your assumption of what I do probably colored your response and made you miss my point - i.e. 1. Bed and physician shortage is a global issue, and while there has been much discussions on how to solve it, the ideal solution is still far away. 2. increasing number of beds alone is not the best solution. Focusing on that alone will lead to the wrong conclusions. We have to think broader than that.

I dont have a solution - I have thoughts on how best to approach the issue. The point raised on allowing CPF to be used for prevention / healthy living over therapy sounds like a good suggestion.

Happy to hear your suggestions and debate based on that though. In fact, if you do have a good solution, I would encourage you to raise it beyond this forum, and even beyond our national boundaries.

Tough problem. If you price the true cost of hospitalization, people will complain that the poor are kept out. If you subsidize, people will over consume (and in the case of Singapore - still complain - because they want to consume class A facilities at class C prices).

I agree that the more scalable solution is to keep people out of hospitals as much as possible. Other than keeping healthy (which more than one poster mentioned), another possibility is to give more power to allied health professionals (such as nurse practitioners) to treat issues or triage to GPs at decentralized locations.

(15-03-2014, 09:15 AM)HitandRun Wrote:

(14-03-2014, 11:41 PM)tanjm Wrote: actually newwater and desalination provide only about 50% of our water needs and there's a water security angle.

But do we use 100% of the newater and desalination capacity during normal periods of time? Obviously not... that's why the current drought has little impact on our water supply and the government is able to ramp up the supply to fill up the gap left by the drought.

Water you can store and keep for future use. Hospital is very different, the running cost is very high. And as tanjm mentioned, water is strategic from the security angle. That means, even if you don't use all of it, you still need to have it. Just like military spending.

Having said that, I do agree that Gahmen's planning has room for improvement. This is strictly an outsider's view. I am no insider (unless voting for this gahmen qualified one as an insider) and has no political master. However If I am accused of being one, it will not intimidate me at all.

(15-03-2014, 11:29 AM)Contrarian Wrote: 1. If everyone makes regular exercise a daily affair, 45 mins - 1 hr, the immune system will be stronger.

2. Doctors must prescribe supplements as well as medication. or refer them to pharmacies. And prescribe medicine.

3. Medisave must be allowed for going to gym and season pass to pool and games.

Gahmen has been promoting healthy lifestyle. Some docs do prescribe supplement, but insurance companies may not accept that. My company insurance does not allow supplement to be claimed. My guess is that healthcare will shoot up if supplements are included.

Here are 2 articles you might find interesting.

http://magazine.nursing.jhu.edu/2010/08/...-shortage/

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and...ation.html

By the way, it is a well known effect that richer countries already draw nurses and doctors (often the better ones) from lesser developed countries. Any significant expansion of our hospitals will come at other country's expense, but perhaps we don't care about this.

Riderr2000

My bad then. See you around.

Here are some patterns about our society that I think I observe. Not sure if you concur.

Population White Paper
Economic growth largely comes with population growth. Without the huge influx of population in the past ten years, most of our malls today wouldn't exists.

Those of us who hold REITs and property counters, ours REITS won't be so attractive without a huge population to support all the shops and business who pay high rental to REITS, who in return, give you 6 - 10% predictable yield for the past many years.

Are we willing to take the financial pain if our population is reduced?

Health

Government supports healthy living in some ways, but our economic growth certainly doesn't. Most of us work very long hours because of high costs of doing business. For many bosses, middle managers and even employees, the only way to maximise economic gain is to work longer and work harder. Without doing so, it is hard to pay the bills and yet turn a decent profit.

Don't believe? I think many NS men are physically unfit. You think so?

Healthy lifestyle is meant for those who either have very high level of discipline, or those well-off enough to dictate some terms of their working hours, which doesn't apply to majority of workers.

Technological breakthrough

The only other way to growth the economy without huge population growth is for innovation and enterprise to revamp and spur the economy. Less likely here because most businesses are addicted to cheap labour. Many bosses are reluctant to innovate because of the available of cheap labour. Some do try their best to innovate, but I think their numbers are still insufficient to change our economy into an innovative one yet.

Technological breakthroughs are more likely to happen in societies that emphasis on creativity, and not on merely good grades in school. You think so?

I feel that most businesses here are characterized by high rents and cheap labour to offset effects of high rents, plus the expectation of wanting workers to work long and hard and still be motivated in spite of low wages.

Do you notice that high demand doesn't necessarily to lead to better wages. Always read about shortage of workers for security or cleaners. But somehow, their wages remain defiantly low in spite of "higher demand". In normal economies, when demand is high, people have to be willing to pay more. Here, when demand is high due to shortage of workers, workers are still expected to accept low salaries because their jobs are classified as menial work.

Basically, we need more people, because based on law of large numbers, businesses are more likely to find people who are willing to accept low but certain pay and work for very long hours, due to their own tight family situations.

(17-03-2014, 10:30 PM)investor101 Wrote: Population White Paper
Are we willing to take the financial pain if our population is reduced?

Technological breakthrough
Basically, we need more people, because based on law of large numbers, businesses are more likely to find people who are willing to accept low but certain pay and work for very long hours, due to their own tight family situations.

Even if we agree to 7mil pp by 2030. What's after that? 8mil? 10mil? 12mil? Or we shouldnt care because by that time we already made enough money and time to kick the bucket?

(18-03-2014, 11:25 AM)sansan88 Wrote:

(16-03-2014, 01:54 PM)Riderr2000 Wrote: HitandRun,

Since you were already wrong on your first presumption, I have no idea how to reply to the rest of your post.

I think your assumption of what I do probably colored your response and made you miss my point - i.e. 1. Bed and physician shortage is a global issue, and while there has been much discussions on how to solve it, the ideal solution is still far away. 2. increasing number of beds alone is not the best solution. Focusing on that alone will lead to the wrong conclusions. We have to think broader than that.

I dont have a solution - I have thoughts on how best to approach the issue. The point raised on allowing CPF to be used for prevention / healthy living over therapy sounds like a good suggestion.

Happy to hear your suggestions and debate based on that though. In fact, if you do have a good solution, I would encourage you to raise it beyond this forum, and even beyond our national boundaries.

Hi Rider2000, your comments are plain shallow and ignorant. Doctors' number has been kept artificially low to keep this field limited to a small group of mainly rich and powerful people. There is definitely no shortage of doctors globally. In fact, western and developed countries, such as Australia, are having an oversupply problem. It is frustrating that many Singaporeans do not agree or understand that a medicine degree is no more difficult nor easier than other degrees like engineering, accounting or science. The main obstacle to become a doctor in Singapore is money, half a million or more, peanuts to the rich. Another fact that the top doctors, usually specialists in western countries, are earning in the range of $150k to $200k annually, much less than what a HDB GP is making, is laughable. How about the case of charging $24 million for several months of treatment? If our current hospital beds shortage problem is not poor planning, then what is? Our healthcare system leaves a lot more to be desired. The only consolation is the comparison with our regional countries but that is another story.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national...6809011455#

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/surgeon-susan-l...22896.html

Please refrain from using abusive words e.g. shallow and ignorant. Since you are new to our forum, I will spare you from any warning.

You can express your view and rebut others' view, but using abusive words will not add any value. In fact it has de-valued your post, at least for me.

Regards
Moderator

http://www.medaxs.com.au/blogs/rising-do...for-budget

Rising doctor number = oversupply??

The most interesting quote was
"Acting Health Minister Kevin Andrews was yesterday not willing to give credence to theories that increasing medical school places, while still relying on large numbers of overseas-trained doctors, was solving the problem of doctor shortages."

In order to debunk some people arguments or insult someone, minimally, you need to learn how to read and understand.
At the very least, give others a proper link to a proper article rather than a summary.

(17-03-2014, 11:34 PM)Bibi Wrote:

(17-03-2014, 10:30 PM)investor101 Wrote: Population White Paper
Are we willing to take the financial pain if our population is reduced?

Technological breakthrough
Basically, we need more people, because based on law of large numbers, businesses are more likely to find people who are willing to accept low but certain pay and work for very long hours, due to their own tight family situations.

Quote:Even if we agree to 7mil pp by 2030. What's after that? 8mil? 10mil? 12mil? Or we shouldnt care because by that time we already made enough money and time to kick the bucket?

What you think is already true for some of the PAPYs & Elites. No?