Best World

Another interesting fact from the video is that the China Team of distributors is lead by 邓皓轩 or Jansen Tang.

I wonder how big a role he has in the running of the "export/retail" business in China?

Who is he?
 
From AR2016:
JANSEN TANG
Group Manager, Regional Membership & Commission
Country Manager, Best World Lifestyle (HK) Company
Limited
 
Mr Tang joined the company in 2005 as a Management
Trainee and was promoted as a Manager in 2006, where
his responsibilities include supervising the calculation
and distribution of bonus commission for distributors.
His consistent performance saw him posted to China
in 2007 to oversee the customer service and logistical
operations for the Group’s business in China. He was
later promoted as Division Manager and subsequently
as Group Manager, Regional Membership &
Commission in 2010 and 2015 respectively. He assumed
further responsibility as Deputy Country Manager,
Hong Kong in 2012 and was subsequently promoted to
Country Manager Hong Kong in 2015, where his role was
expanded to include the strategic planning and business
development in the region.
Mr Tang holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Psychology and
Economics from National University of Singapore
 
From AR2015
JANSEN TANG
Group Manager, Regional Membership & Commission
Country Manager
Best World Lifestyle (HK) Company Limited
 
Mr Tang joined the company in 2005 as a Management Trainee and
was promoted as a Manager in 2006, where his responsibilities
include supervising the calculation and distribution of bonus
commission for distributors. His consistent performance saw him
posted to China in 2007 to oversee the customer service and
logistical operations for the Group’s business in China. He was
later promoted as Division Manager and subsequently as Group
Manager, Regional Membership & Commission in 2010 and 2015
respectively. He assumed further responsibility as Deputy Country
Manager, China & Hong Kong in 2012 and was subsequently
promoted to Country Manager China & Hong Kong in 2015,
where his role was expanded to include the strategic planning and
business development in the region.
Mr Tang holds a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology and Economics
from National University of Singapore

“your hard work in building up a strong network team entitle you to earn a passive income and this passive income can even extend to become a lifelong income with sustainable earnings for your family even after death."
 
If this passive income scheme only works under the multi-level-commission based DS model - it means, the CEO is attesting to the fact that its so called “Export/Retail” business in China is actually a multi-level-commission DS based business.
 
If this is the case, it implies the existence of a formal distributor agreement between CGL and the Company in which all compensation rights including detail method of commission calculations and ranking advancement criteria etc. are being fully spelled out – without which CGL’s rights wouldn’t have been protected etc……….
 
Under such a scenario, which legal entity of the BWI group would have been used to sign distributor agreement with CGL?
 
Not likely with any legal entities in China => to avoid getting caught.
 
More likely to be BWL HK => more convenient and under Jansen Tang.

Or one can look at the issues from a different perspective by flipping the questions around.
 
Impressed with the BWL “passive income scheme” that CGL has been able to enjoy, Mr. X, a China citizen, is interested to become a China distributor of BWL, how would he go about joining BWL in China?
 
Questions from MR. X:
1)  Who should I approach in China?
2)  Do I need a sponsor (upline)?
3)  Which legal entity of BWI’s group in China should I sign the “distributor agreement” with?
4)  How does the “passive income scheme” work under the current “retail” model?
 
Try writing to the IR and see how would they respond……………………………..

Boon,

Just out of curiosity (if you do not mind), do you still own Best World share and do you intend to buy if you do not have any now?

(29-07-2017, 03:43 PM)investor1 Wrote: Boon,

Just out of curiosity (if you do not mind), do you still own Best World share and do you intend to buy if you do not have any now?

Have a guess - why do you think so ?

A: Vested - Have not sold a single shares yet.
B: Vested – Partially divested.
C: Not Vested - Fully divested.
D: Vested - Still hold on to bonus shares – minimum long term holding.

If BWI ever get embroiled in lawsuits for misleading investors, how much could BWI really afford to “settle”
 
Is it worth the risks?
 
NPAT (SGD, million)
FY2013 =   1.429
FY2014 =   4.054
FY2015 = 10.104 
FY2016 = 34.569
 
Cash and Cash Equivalents (SGD million)
FY2013 = 33.283  (Debt = 3.5) 
FY2014 = 40.975  (Debt = 6.0)
FY2015 = 47.247  (Debt = 0.018)
FY2016 = 54.933  (Debt = 7.361)
 
Market Cap (SGD, million) of “Free-Float” ~ SGD 300 m
=> 10% = SGD 30 m
=> 20% = SGD 60 m
=>  30% = SGD 90m

(28-07-2017, 07:44 AM)holymage Wrote: Millionfaith, thanks for sharing on MLM operations, based on your experience as a MLM distributor.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

@Holymage, thanks for the note. I am happy that the info is useful.

By the way, Specuvestor has pointed out that MLM has been approved in SG. (Thanks to Specuvestor for the link) Nevertheless, although I am not very familiar with Amway China marketing plan, I believe it is quite similar to the SG marketing plan, i.e.multi level commission. This is because the multi level commission which leads to passive income & legacy ultimately is one of the powerful motivation and incentive for one to join, and work towards.

Having said that, I would not be surprised that BW marketing plan is similar to SG; I do not know BW marketing plan in SG but as a 'competitor', I did heard good reviews on DRs Secret products.

Also, if I can refer to Specuvestor post #581, I extracted and pasted it here because as an investor, these are relevant in my view:

"the real world it's not so straight forward. Regulatory risk is just one of the business risk that a firm takes......


Does the management knows what it is doing? Will this risk shut down the whole operation or business? Does the shareholders trust the mgt?

That's why mgt quality and track record is so important"

@investor1, obviously it is the best for one to share voluntary if he/she is vested to gauge their points better and the weights of his posts, but by reading/watching the post and behavior, I would believe that Boon is no longer vested, because otherwise he would be able to write his doubts and concerns to BW IR, and not "inviting" shareholders on a few occasions to do so on behalf. Of course, it is just my guess

@Boon, I appreciate you spending your quality resources, your time, your analytical skill and knowledge to provide the other side of the business, which is valuable. It is important for an investor to be rational and factored in the worst case scenario in any investment, especially if we are unaware that this could be a major risk. Well Boon, you have made your point, not just one, but have served many reminders that the business in China may not be legitimate. However if VBs do not buy it, is there a need to go over and over and over and over....Why not direct the resources to something meaningful? This is just my humble thought, no offense.


(Vested)

“your hard work in building up a strong network team entitle you to earn a passive income and this passive income can even extend to become a lifelong income with sustainable earnings for your family even after death."
 _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
"In network marketing, you can earn money upon the effort of people you may or may not know – you earn money off other people’s effort as well as your own. If you are successful in building leaders in your team, there will be a point where your team will grow with or without you. You can’t stop it, and you can’t stop your earnings going up. Amazing, isn’t it?"

"When you are able to build a big team, you will start to earn a consistent and good amount of residual passive income."

http://passiveincomesingapore.net/networ...-business/
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Passive income schemes in both the above cases is based on multi-level-commission earned from a strong network team of downline.

Without the multi-level-commission structure, it wouldn't work.

(30-07-2017, 10:37 AM)Millionfaith Wrote:

(28-07-2017, 07:44 AM)holymage Wrote: Millionfaith, thanks for sharing on MLM operations, based on your experience as a MLM distributor.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

@Holymage, thanks for the note. I am happy that the info is useful.

By the way, Specuvestor has pointed out that MLM has been approved in SG. (Thanks to Specuvestor for the link) Nevertheless, although I am not very familiar with Amway China marketing plan, I believe it is quite similar to the SG marketing plan, i.e.multi level commission. This is because the multi level commission which leads to passive income & legacy ultimately is one of the powerful motivation and incentive for one to join, and work towards.

Having said that, I would not be surprised that BW marketing plan is similar to SG; I do not know BW marketing plan in SG but as a 'competitor', I did heard good reviews on DRs Secret products.

Also, if I can refer to Specuvestor post #581, I extracted and pasted it here because as an investor, these are relevant in my view:

"the real world it's not so straight forward. Regulatory risk is just one of the business risk that a firm takes......


Does the management knows what it is doing? Will this risk shut down the whole operation or business? Does the shareholders trust the mgt?

That's why mgt quality and track record is so important"

@investor1, obviously it is the best for one to share voluntary if he/she is vested to gauge their points better and the weights of his posts, but by reading/watching the post and behavior, I would believe that Boon is no longer vested, because otherwise he would be able to write his doubts and concerns to BW IR, and not "inviting" shareholders on a few occasions to do so on behalf. Of course, it is just my guess

@Boon, I appreciate you spending your quality resources, your time, your analytical skill and knowledge to provide the other side of the business, which is valuable. It is important for an investor to be rational and factored in the worst case scenario in any investment, especially if we are unaware that this could be a major risk. Well Boon, you have made your point, not just one, but have served many reminders that the business in China may not be legitimate. However if VBs do not buy it, is there a need to go over and over and over and over....Why not direct the resources to something meaningful? This is just my humble thought, no offense.


(Vested)

@ millionfaith:
 
I could be “vested” and declare myself “not vested” and vice versa – how could you tell if I am telling the truth?
 
The advantage of not declaring one’s position is – at least one wouldn’t be accused of “not telling the truth”.
 
I could have raised more doubts and concerns with the IR than any of you combined or I could have raised none.
 
The advantage of inviting others to write to the IR is – I wouldn’t be accused of “distorting or manipulating” the content of feedback from the IR.
 
Statement 1: (http://www.gov.cn/zwgk/2005-09/03/content_28808.htm)
ð“Multi-level-commission is considered at act of 传销, which is illegal in China, under the 禁止传销条例.”
Statement 2: (CEO statement)
ð“your hard work in building up a strong network team entitle you to earn a passive income and this passive income can even extend to become a lifelong income with sustainable earnings for your family even after death."
Statement 3: (Millionfaith’ statement)
ð“This is because the multi level commission which leads to passive income & legacy ultimately is one of the powerful motivation and incentive for one to join, and work towards.”
 
 
Statement 1 is a Chinese law which prohibits multi-level commission in China.
 
Statement 2 is a reprresentation made by the CEO on the “passive income scheme” that BWL practises in China.
 
Statement 3 of yours explains and confirms that “passive income” is derived from “multi-level-commission”.
 
Therefore, BWL’s passive income scheme in China is illegal because it is multi-level-commission based.
 
Still disagree?

Going over the same thing from different perspectives is not exactly the same thing.

DMJ approach is different from CGL approach.

(30-07-2017, 01:44 PM)Boon Wrote:

(30-07-2017, 10:37 AM)Millionfaith Wrote:

(28-07-2017, 07:44 AM)holymage Wrote: Millionfaith, thanks for sharing on MLM operations, based on your experience as a MLM distributor.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

@Holymage, thanks for the note. I am happy that the info is useful.

By the way, Specuvestor has pointed out that MLM has been approved in SG. (Thanks to Specuvestor for the link) Nevertheless, although I am not very familiar with Amway China marketing plan, I believe it is quite similar to the SG marketing plan, i.e.multi level commission. This is because the multi level commission which leads to passive income & legacy ultimately is one of the powerful motivation and incentive for one to join, and work towards.

Having said that, I would not be surprised that BW marketing plan is similar to SG; I do not know BW marketing plan in SG but as a 'competitor', I did heard good reviews on DRs Secret products.

Also, if I can refer to Specuvestor post #581, I extracted and pasted it here because as an investor, these are relevant in my view:

"the real world it's not so straight forward. Regulatory risk is just one of the business risk that a firm takes......


Does the management knows what it is doing? Will this risk shut down the whole operation or business? Does the shareholders trust the mgt?

That's why mgt quality and track record is so important"

@investor1, obviously it is the best for one to share voluntary if he/she is vested to gauge their points better and the weights of his posts, but by reading/watching the post and behavior, I would believe that Boon is no longer vested, because otherwise he would be able to write his doubts and concerns to BW IR, and not "inviting" shareholders on a few occasions to do so on behalf. Of course, it is just my guess

@Boon, I appreciate you spending your quality resources, your time, your analytical skill and knowledge to provide the other side of the business, which is valuable. It is important for an investor to be rational and factored in the worst case scenario in any investment, especially if we are unaware that this could be a major risk. Well Boon, you have made your point, not just one, but have served many reminders that the business in China may not be legitimate. However if VBs do not buy it, is there a need to go over and over and over and over....Why not direct the resources to something meaningful? This is just my humble thought, no offense.


(Vested)

@ millionfaith:
 
I could be “vested” and declare myself “not vested” and vice versa – how could you tell if I am telling the truth?
 
The advantage of not declaring one’s position is – at least one wouldn’t be accused of “not telling the truth”.
 
I could have raised more doubts and concerns with the IR than any of you combined or I could have raised none.
 
The advantage of inviting others to write to the IR is – I wouldn’t be accused of “distorting or manipulating” the content of feedback from the IR.
 
Statement 1: (http://www.gov.cn/zwgk/2005-09/03/content_28808.htm)
ð“Multi-level-commission is considered at act of 传销, which is illegal in China, under the 禁止传销条例.”
Statement 2: (CEO statement)
ð“your hard work in building up a strong network team entitle you to earn a passive income and this passive income can even extend to become a lifelong income with sustainable earnings for your family even after death."
Statement 3: (Millionfaith’ statement)
ð“This is because the multi level commission which leads to passive income & legacy ultimately is one of the powerful motivation and incentive for one to join, and work towards.”
 
 
Statement 1 is a Chinese law which prohibits multi-level commission in China.
 
Statement 2 is a reprresentation made by the CEO on the “passive income scheme” that BWL practises in China.
 
Statement 3 of yours explains and confirms that “passive income” is derived from “multi-level-commission”.
 
Therefore, BWL’s passive income scheme in China is illegal because it is multi-level-commission based.
 
Still disagree?

Going over the same thing from different perspectives is not exactly the same thing.

DMJ approach is different from CGL approach.

In post# 590, I said “Analyzing and dwelling on the issues, especially approaching from different perspectives, may lead to uncovering of more issues…………………”
 
One thing leads to another - from DMJ to CGL to “passive income”………….
 
Are we in a position to conclude that BWL has been engaging in multi-level-commission practices in China, which is considered illegal?
 
A logical mind would have say so.
 
Are these “meaningful” things to do?
 
Absolutely !
 
What is meaningful for one may not be meaningful to another.
 
And some skeptics would always remain skeptics regardless.
 
“Meaningful” to me is not contingent upon whether VBs buy it or not - it is about being able to share my analysis with VBs.

Ultimately, one has to make up his or her own mind.
 
It is still a long way to go if I were to embark further on this “meaningful” voyage by going through the following videos and analyze them from the various perspectives as listed ……………………….. more “inconsistencies” would be uncovered for sure………………… What could be more “meaningful” than doing these?
 
Videos
1)  BWL Convention 2017 Dora Speech 01
2)  BWL Convention 2017 Dora Speech 02
3)  SDA Speech (BWL Convention 2017)
4)  BWL’s first Star Diamond Ambassador
5)  Top 10 Earners (BWL Convention 2017)
6)  BWL Convention 2016 Dora Speech 01
7)  etc
 
 Perspectives:
a)   Legal
b)  Regulatory
c)   Business model
d)  Business structure
e)   Compensation structure
f)    Distributor agreement
g)   Ranking advancement
h)  Top Earners
i)    etc
 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________