More Hong Kong companies say business impacted by mass protests

[bmann025]

@CarlZha explains on soundcloud

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/statu...6718819328

[karlmarx]

Before the foreign world traded with China through the British in Hong Kong, they had to do so through the Portuguese in Macau.

The relationship between the Chinese and the Portuguese was tenuous. Sometimes they fought, sometimes they did business. But for most of 1500s to 1800s, anyone who wanted to access the Chinese market had to do so from Macau, and they were mostly Portuguese merchants, although there were also some small numbers of foreigners.

Because of its monopoly over the Chinese trade, Macau was highly-desired by the other colonial powers. It was, throughout the period, attacked by both the Spanish and English navies. The Spanish and English also tried to convince the Chinese court to allow trade between their countries, but did no succeed.

During these 300 years, Macau was one of the most prosperous and cosmopolitan city in Asia. Hong Kong, on the other hand, was an uninhabited wilderness. Save for the wildlife.

But all that changed after the British took the Chinese market through violent means. Thereafter, the British controlled the trade with China.

Macau became a backwater. And soon after, during the 1850s, legalised gambling. Gambling and tourism remained the only driver of Macau economy till today.

The tides have turned. Hong Kong was now the powerhouse between the two.

Read the complete story of Macau and Asia's trade history here:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3719...earch=true

===

How does Hong Kong's future look like? Will it be as prosperous? More prosperous? Or will its economic relevance be relegated?

If China can take away the economic relevance of Hong Kong's container ports, I don't see why it cannot, and will not, eventually replace its other economic functions.

[karlmarx]

HKEX stocks rallied today, in anticipation of Lam's announcement on the withdrawal of the Bill.

But looks like it was too early to celebrate.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/poli...ition-bill

Protests look likely to continue.

https://lihkg.com/thread/1539924/page/1

There is no closure in spite of her speech, because of the accumulation of public anger towards the police. I believe if Lam agreed to a) release/discharge the arrested 'rioters' and b) punish the out of line police officers, the majority of the public would be more willing to move on. Without a majority of public support for protests to continue, the movement will end.

[bmann025]

Disagree.

Law is not negotiable in a democracy. There is something really rotten here, what can't be ignored and has to be dealt with.

This is all a fun & an exciting game to them! They live in a video game mindset & not reality! They masked their faces so they can roam freely to create destruction without taking responsibility! They are knowingly destroying HK!!
https://twitter.com/Viva_HongKong/status...1130216448

Hong Kong Protesters beat up elderly Hong Kong Metro station managers
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1169316016414871553

So-called Hong Kong journalists beat up a mainland Chinese tourist.
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1169272640642535424

Hong Kong protesters harass Taiwanese reporter because he spoke Mandarin.
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168906131634360323

This is footage of Hong Kong protesters attacking middle aged passengers in Prince Edward station inside the train car with sticks and hammer 🔨 until blue shirt Uncle took hammer 🔨 away from 1 of them
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168793636160466944

Then Hong Kong Protesters proceed to spray fire extinguisher 🧯 inside train car against passengers and assaulted a girl who was filming and robbed her of her phone
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168794700267937792

One #Honhkong citizen was assaulted by #HongKongProtesters.
https://twitter.com/liamstone_19/status/...4329456640

You know this 💩 is serious when Hong Kong protester even attacked White tourist for disagreeing with them at Tung Chung yesterday
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168586315803160576

Hong Kong protesters needed to realize that they may have really fu*ked up when even US gov Propaganda channel @VOANews had to report their acts of violence
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168585827988852736

I am trying to imagine this happening in US, but can’t because US cops would’ve shot and killed. Hong Kong police need to be commented for their restraint for not shooting Hong Kong protesters
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1168584539607683072

...

[specuvestor]

Extradition bill was the catalyst. But the underlying anger is cost of living and quality of living. It's ironic the tycoons are trying to pacify them because the faith of the "have-not" in the free wheeling capitalistic system has to be very extraordinary to accept the pacification and dogma with the huge wealth-poverty gap for all to see.

Since the GFC I think anger has been the driving force behind democracy decision around the globe. This is unsustainable and it's somewhat trying to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator of shared misery rather than uneven prosperity. Something for the history books.

[holymage]

Agree with specuvestor.
It is very easy to judge others without understanding from their point of view or going through their experiences.
In fact, I feel that the Hong Kong people are very tolerant despite suffering from poor living conditions. 
The extradition bill is only the catalyst to their decades of frustration.

Do you know Hong Kong won the housing affordability index globally, with a price-to-income of 20x? 
Would you like to live in a cage home or industrial building because you cannot afford to buy a decent apartment?

Hong Kong "does not" have a capitalist system. Its Legislative Council consists of a lot of businessman with their own personal agenda. The property developers have vast amount of land bank, but they release slowly to squeeze more profits out of the people. This is similar to De Beers monopoly of diamond and controlling the diamond supply. The result is most Hong Kongers are caught in the debt trap, living to pay off their debts. 

A capitalist market without real competition is not a free market.

Similar monopolies are currently seen in the US as well.

The economic malaise, combined with a perceived loss of cultural identity and frustration at a lack of political voice, is driving young people into the streets. What binds them together is a shared sense that there is no future for them in Hong Kong.

Almost 1 in 5 residents lives below the poverty level, according to a government report from 2017.

If it’s just about the extradition bill, there wouldn’t be so many people out protesting.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...y-bgw3Da8o

[TerryT]

This is simply moving backwards. It’s like saying I can take things in my own hand by killing u if I don’t like u. Just bare fist can kill a person, let alone a immature impulsive young man with deadly weapon. Any offenders will take advantage of current chaos to commit crimes!

[karlmarx]

Disagree.

Law is not negotiable in a democracy. There is something really rotten here, what can't be ignored and has to be dealt with.

This is all a fun & an exciting game to them! They live in a video game mindset & not reality! They masked their faces so they can roam freely to create destruction without taking responsibility! They are knowingly destroying HK!!

I agree that some of the protesters have behaved in a very reprehensible manner, and I'm not implying that it is an acceptable behaviour. 

But that has to understood, partly, as a consequence of their economic and political oppression. 

If Lam and her business supporters does not want to make any concession to the oppressed -- that the power bloc wishes to preserve the economic and political status quo between them and the average joe -- then there is only one way for things to end; very badly.

Withdraw the bill, and release the arrested protesters. Maybe don't even need to do a COI. Just get the police to bow, apologise, acknowledge their errors, get those offending police officers to apologise to their victims, etc. Maybe Lam and her police will lose some face, but is that worse than more violence?

The power bloc has more to lose from a society torn asunder.

[specuvestor]

So HK was on a laissez faire system as UK basically let them be. Problem with that is that the strong will become stronger; oligarchs, triads etc. That's the flaw with this idea of law of the jungle. Humans now rule the world as strong become stronger , so does it mean it is ok to exploit the other stakeholders of the planet? That's a question evolutionists have to ponder as it gets applied into societal models.

That's why I believe in a balance between order and dynamism. To say things will develop naturally to be optimal like the invisible hand holds no water in realistic observation nor in 2nd law of thermodynamics. Even running a family is not like that.

@ Holymage HK has a very "capitalistic system" if you believe capitalism is survival of the fittest, everyone for their self serving purpose will result somehow in a more efficient aggregate. The irony is that it will lead to apex creatures or entities.

And yes TerryT that's what it means by survival of the fittest. Which is why law and order is needed. Effectively law and order is to "protect the weaker party": in times of peace it is to protect say the consumers from the monopolies and in time of disruption, to protect the rich from the strong or outlaws, including say IP pirates.

Trick is how to strike a balance so that the inherent conflict described by the conflict theorists do not boils over. Singapore knew since the founding that you need to have a shelter over the head of immigrants, hence HDB was born. And policy makers to consider at what point the youths that just come into the society realise they can never achieve their aspirations by hardwork and meritocracy because the structure， incumbent and establishment, and cost is just too overwhelming?

中庸之道... way of the middle road

[holymage]

Sorry specuvestor, I have to disagree. 

With no competition, there is no free market. With no free market, there is no real capitalism. It is phoney capitalism.


Gone were the days when the US government embrace capitalism and broke monopolies like Standard Oil and Bell System.

From Wikipedia:
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.[1][2][3][4] Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.[5][6] In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investments are determined by every owner of wealth, property or production ability in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.[7][8]

From Merriam-Webster:
An economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.