Is sg property cheap now?

[pencilin]

Do you know the first thing our CDL developer asked is to remove ABSD for foreigners  ?

I think you are a very nice guy

[karlmarx]

Nothing is wasted here. Currently a few projects from Shenton way till Vivocity are not doing very well. You can drive around the entire stretch at 8 PM, around 70% of the units are dark. There are many unsold units there.
There is insufficient demand for condo. So the next group of buyer is richer-HDB-locals, who can't afford to pay $1500 psf. The government did a good job on maximizing profit with Price Discrimination.

What I mean if you to sell as entire condo project vs HDB on same plot of land regardless where, surely there is more returns to national reserve if is condo.

Indeed. Selling HDB without including its land costs was once rebuked by some minister as "raiding the reserves."

One can 'maximise the reserves,' by only selling land to private developers. But then the landless will soon or later revolt. As we are seeing now in HK.

Thankfully, SG government is wise enough to return to a moderate level of economic growth, and further wealth redistribution. But this is also only possible because of the existence of institutions for political change; better listen and give in to the people, or they'll certainly vote you out. So Singaporeans have to be thankful not only for the existence of institutions for democracy (erules of law, electoral process, etc), but also the participants, such as opposition political parties, their flaws notwithstanding. If there are no contestants, and no institutions for democracy (like in HK), condo prices may have doubled since 2013.

The GSW is indeed a lottery-like handout. Perhaps not unlike Pinnacle@Duxton. This is wealth redistribution. Pork barrel politics? Maybe. And besides, what good is a government if the lives of the governed are no better. But would the alternative -- selling the land to private developers, and allowing market forces to decide who the buyers will be -- be preferred? Not to the average Joe, I reckon.

[Temperament]

Me think the youngs in HK see no future for them. That's why they just want to let go steam.

i think if i am one of them i will too.

[weijian]

Nothing is wasted here. Currently a few projects from Shenton way till Vivocity are not doing very well. You can drive around the entire stretch at 8 PM, around 70% of the units are dark. There are many unsold units there.
There is insufficient demand for condo. So the next group of buyer is richer-HDB-locals, who can't afford to pay $1500 psf. The government did a good job on maximizing profit with Price Discrimination.

What I mean if you to sell as entire condo project vs HDB on same plot of land regardless where, surely there is more returns to national reserve if is condo.

Indeed. Selling HDB without including its land costs was once rebuked by some minister as "raiding the reserves."

One can 'maximise the reserves,' by only selling land to private developers. But then the landless will soon or later revolt. As we are seeing now in HK.

Thankfully, SG government is wise enough to return to a moderate level of economic growth, and further wealth redistribution. But this is also only possible because of the existence of institutions for political change; better listen and give in to the people, or they'll certainly vote you out. So Singaporeans have to be thankful not only for the existence of institutions for democracy (erules of law, electoral process, etc), but also the participants, such as opposition political parties, their flaws notwithstanding. If there are no contestants, and no institutions for democracy (like in HK), condo prices may have doubled since 2013.

The GSW is indeed a lottery-like handout. Perhaps not unlike Pinnacle@Duxton. This is wealth redistribution. Pork barrel politics? Maybe. And besides, what good is a government if the lives of the governed are no better. But would the alternative -- selling the land to private developers, and allowing market forces to decide who the buyers will be -- be preferred? Not to the average Joe, I reckon.

A key difference between SG and HK gov is that land sales go straight into reserves for SG but land sales go to the annual budget for HK (termed land premiums in this link).
The structure of this setup for HK incentivises increasing land prices, and i remember someone on VB.com did comment that the person who setup SG's structure (goes into reserves) was a genius.

For SG, the GE in 2011 had to be the wake up call - Ministers' salary were modified from "Top X income earners in the country" to 4 "more down to earth, below the ivory tower" benchmarks like median+bottom 20% percentile income growth, unemployment rate and real GDP growth. I guess the only difference between SG and HK is that the former has elections? Probably this also explains why the protesters are asking for universal suffrage i suppose?

HK budget: https://www.legco.gov.hk/research-public...0416-e.pdf
SG ministers salary white paper in 2012: https://www.psd.gov.sg/docs/default-sour...d-govt.pdf

[corydorus]

Nothing is wasted here. Currently a few projects from Shenton way till Vivocity are not doing very well. You can drive around the entire stretch at 8 PM, around 70% of the units are dark. There are many unsold units there.
There is insufficient demand for condo. So the next group of buyer is richer-HDB-locals, who can't afford to pay $1500 psf. The government did a good job on maximizing profit with Price Discrimination.

What I mean if you to sell as entire condo project vs HDB on same plot of land regardless where, surely there is more returns to national reserve if is condo.

Indeed. Selling HDB without including its land costs was once rebuked by some minister as "raiding the reserves."

One can 'maximise the reserves,' by only selling land to private developers. But then the landless will soon or later revolt. As we are seeing now in HK.

Thankfully, SG government is wise enough to return to a moderate level of economic growth, and further wealth redistribution. But this is also only possible because of the existence of institutions for political change; better listen and give in to the people, or they'll certainly vote you out. So Singaporeans have to be thankful not only for the existence of institutions for democracy (erules of law, electoral process, etc), but also the participants, such as opposition political parties, their flaws notwithstanding. If there are no contestants, and no institutions for democracy (like in HK), condo prices may have doubled since 2013.

The GSW is indeed a lottery-like handout. Perhaps not unlike Pinnacle@Duxton. This is wealth redistribution. Pork barrel politics? Maybe. And besides, what good is a government if the lives of the governed are no better. But would the alternative -- selling the land to private developers, and allowing market forces to decide who the buyers will be -- be preferred? Not to the average Joe, I reckon.

While there are similarity, Singapore is based on meritocracy thereby fairer. Our younger generation still have HDB even if is in Punggol. HK situation is far worst. As I said, the well connected will likely have better chance to get those "lottery". The average Joe ... errr ... so I am not sure.

.

[karlmarx]

Indeed. Where about 35% of HK's government revenue is funded by property-related income (land sales and stamp duties), the same for SG is only 6% (stamp duties). One of the implication of this is, as has been mentioned by weijian, that HK government will want to maintain, if not increase, land prices.

The implication for SG is that, since it property-related income only account for a measly portion of its government revenue, there has to be other sources of income. Perhaps most notable is the GST, which accounts for 15% of SG's government revenue. Does HK have GST? No. Another notable source of income for SG government is the investment return from its SWFs, which contributes about 20% of the revenue. This source of funding could be higher, since the 'payout ratio' from the SWFs are only 50% of its expected long-term returns.

SG's SWFs, and perhaps GST, will be increasingly important sources of revenue if other other traditional sources of income -- such as income tax and corporate tax -- is not raised, and expenditures continue to grow.

There has been mention of financing infrastructure spending by selling bonds. I think the present environment is a good time to do so.

===

I do not think SG is "fairer" because of "meritocracy."

My opinion is that SG is "fairer" because of 1) its effort to uplift people's income (through emphasis on alternate education pathways, workfare, skillsfuture, and of course, creating the necessary environment for business investments), and 2) its effort/willingness to share a greater portion of wealth with those who have 'fallen behind/not succeeded' (such as Pioneer Generation, Merdeka Generation, and the generous amounts of flat subsidies for lower income groups, amonst others).

These two points are actually contrary to how an ideal type meritocracy may work; you do it on your own, and if you succeed, you deserve to be rewarded for your merits/higher ability. Relying on such logic, I may instead offer subsidies to higher income earners, because clearly, they are of 'higher merit.' The lower income? Those bums. What have they done to deserve anything?

===

As for the well-connected getting a piece of the lottery pie, I'm not sure. It is rational for a system to reward individuals who are aligned and loyal to preserving/enhancing the system's long-term prosperity. But the purpose of a re-distribution is also to create inclusiveness. So there has to be a balance.

In any case, I believe that, just by being born in SG -- regardless of whether one is well or poorly connected -- an individual has a higher probability of, and propensity for, economic prosperity, compared to almost anywhere else on earth. Where else can you find so many asset-rich individuals well on the way to FIRE (if they aren't already there), on a per capita basis?

[dreamybear]

Nothing is wasted here. Currently a few projects from Shenton way till Vivocity are not doing very well. You can drive around the entire stretch at 8 PM, around 70% of the units are dark. There are many unsold units there.
There is insufficient demand for condo. So the next group of buyer is richer-HDB-locals, who can't afford to pay $1500 psf. 

I think Singapore properties are currently overpriced compared to other cities.

Take for eg, a 900+yrs leasehold 3 brm 1220 sqf apartment near Canary Wharf, it is selling slightly above 700,000 pounds(S$ 1.2m)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for...18225.html

I don't think we can find a similarly priced condo near MBFC or even Raffles Place.

I may be wrong, but I don't think S'pore will ever overtake London's financial center position, given that London is more developed and has deeper financial sophistication, and UK will probably be around much longer than SG.

[fanobell]

It's difficult to overtake London. Rich people need countries that can stand up for them... London & New York are still preferred choices.

[dreamybear]

I think those who are able to get $160,000 in grants are getting a very good deal - imagine a $500k resale HDB will cost $340k after deducting $160k.

-------------------------------------------------------
More first-time HDB flat buyers to get higher grants; income ceiling for eligible buyers raised
Published 20 min ago  10 Sep 2019

SINGAPORE - From Wednesday (Sept 11), more first-time buyers will get higher grants and more flexibility to choose the size of their flat and where it is located.

The income ceiling for eligible buyers has also been raised for the first time since 2015......

But from Wednesday, the AHG and SHG will be combined into a new Enhanced CPF Housing Grant (EHG) of up to $80,000, available to eligible buyers, regardless of whether they get a new or resale flat.

There are also no restrictions on their choice of flat type and location. Previously, the SHG was limited to those buying four-room or smaller flats in non-mature estates.

The income ceiling for the EHG is $9,000, higher than the AHG's cap of $5,000 or the SHG's $8,500.

The caveat for the EHG is that the flat's lease must cover buyers until they are aged 95, in line with the authorities' push to get people to buy homes that can last them for life. Those who do not meet this condition will get a pro-rated amount depending on the lease.

With this change, an eligible first-timer family earning $4,800 a month and buying a new four-room flat in a mature estate from the HDB can get $45,000 in grants, compared to $5,000 under the old system.

As for resale flat buyers, they may get up to $160,000 in grants - a third more than before.......

Read more : https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/h...r-eligible

[Bibi]

Resale hdbs are usually priced much higher than BTOs. And the words read they MAY get UP TO $160,000.