Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Hyflux
03-04-2019, 09:41 AM. (This post was last modified: 03-04-2019, 09:42 AM by wonghw12.)
Post: #531
RE: Hyflux
There were several red flags in the audited numbers before 2018 but the disclosure was grossly insufficient still imo. For example, given 2017's financials, even if you are sure that Hyflux would have to stop distribution payments to perps and prefs given the cashflow trajectory, would you have thought that Hyflux's senior bonds should be nearly worthless in a liquidation scenario?

1. Was there anywhere that indicated that the valuation of Tuaspring should be NEGATIVE? Or any indication that the plant was underperforming significantly? It is booked as an asset (instead of a liability)
2. Auditor signed off the company without indicating doubt on going concern.
3. What happened to the service receivable concession that makes up a huge part of the assets? Did this just poof?

Find Reply
03-04-2019, 10:17 AM.
Post: #532
RE: Hyflux
Hindsight is always 20-20. I have my sympathy for OL.

Find Reply
04-04-2019, 01:54 PM. (This post was last modified: 04-04-2019, 01:55 PM by brattzz.)
Post: #533
RE: Hyflux
Salim walk away Liao, TS become state board!
=========== Signature ===========
1) Try NOT to LOSE money!
2) Do NOT SELL in BEAR, BUY-BUY-BUY! invest in managements/companies that does the same!
3) CASH in hand is KING in BEAR! 
4) In BULL, SELL-SELL-SELL! 

Find Reply
08-04-2019, 08:15 AM.
Post: #534
RE: Hyflux
(04-04-2019, 01:54 PM)brattzz Wrote: Salim walk away Liao, TS become state board!

At least, the water plant is assured which is probably more important than anything else.

Find Reply
08-04-2019, 08:19 AM.
Post: #535
RE: Hyflux
(03-04-2019, 07:41 AM)ACTIVIST SPEAKS Wrote: From announcements by various parties, the situation is :

Hyflux spent more than 1 billion dollars to build a power plant with a desalination facility to satisfy an obligation with PUB in which the company, knowingly, is expected to contractually lose money for next 25 years.....wow, this is entrepreneurship-Singapore style!!!

It means that it is difficult to squeeze any margin out of any Singapore regulator. Especially so if you are dealing with two regulators(water and electricity!)

Find Reply
11-04-2019, 08:29 AM.
Post: #536
RE: Hyflux
Looking like Hyflux is going down and more than 50,000 retail investors are looking at complete write-off. With EMA, PUB, MAS, DBS and CPF all making announcements to tell these 50,000 people that they are not remotely responsible for the downfall of Hyflux, it needs a miracle for another white knight to step forward. A few questions in my mind which I hope can be answered before this good name company (there is a 凯 and there is a 发 and yet...) get forgotten in history.


1. What was the reason KPMG allowed Tuaspring to remain as "Available for Sale" for more than 12 months, thereby avoiding the necessity to assess any asset impairment in 2017?

2. How did the company, the appraiser and KPMG justify the value of Tuaspring in the books when PUB, looking at the same figures, came up with a number that is way below?

3. Why did Hyflux go to the retail market to raise money in the 2016 perps for the purpose of redeeming another perps held mainly by institutional investors, bearing in mind that there was no obligation to redemption and Hyflux was desperately in need of money then?


There are 8 directors in Hyflux. Olivia Lum is the only executive director, the other 7 are non executive. 6 are independent. 7 directors (including Olivia Lum) own the 2016 perps. I do not know what is scarier - the fact the directors are unaware of the precarious position of Hyflux in 2016 or the fact they have no idea what the hell is going on all these years.

Find Reply
11-04-2019, 01:48 PM.
Post: #537
RE: Hyflux
(11-04-2019, 08:29 AM)ACTIVIST SPEAKS Wrote: Looking like Hyflux is going down and more than 50,000 retail investors are looking at complete write-off.  With EMA, PUB, MAS, DBS and CPF all making announcements to tell these 50,000 people that they are not remotely responsible for the downfall of Hyflux, it needs a miracle for another white knight to step forward.  A few questions in my mind which I hope can be answered before this good name company (there is a 凯 and there is a 发  and yet...) get forgotten in history.


1.   What was the reason KPMG allowed Tuaspring to remain as "Available for Sale" for more than 12 months, thereby avoiding the necessity to assess any asset impairment in 2017?

2.   How did the company, the appraiser and KPMG justify the value of Tuaspring in the books when PUB, looking at the same figures, came up with a number that is way below?

3.   Why did Hyflux go to the retail market to raise money in the 2016 perps for the purpose of redeeming another perps held mainly by institutional investors, bearing in mind that there was no obligation to redemption and Hyflux was desperately in need of money then?


There are 8 directors in Hyflux.  Olivia Lum is the only executive director, the other 7 are non executive.  6 are independent.  7 directors (including Olivia Lum) own the 2016 perps.  I do not know what is scarier - the fact the directors are unaware of the precarious position of Hyflux in 2016 or the fact they have no idea what the hell is going on all these years.

Your last paragraph provides some sort of "indemnity" for all the directors as they themselves also victims, whether they are aware or unaware of the hectic financial position of the company... Cool

Find Reply
11-04-2019, 02:14 PM.
Post: #538
RE: Hyflux
desmondxyz....yeah, I was trying to sneak in that point.

Simon Tay has been singled out, criticised, scolded and ridiculed by many (I think mainly becos he has a public FB account). Even Jannie Tay of Hour Glass joined in. Not once did he mentioned he, himself, has 500,000 of Hyflux perps.

Find Reply
11-04-2019, 03:25 PM. (This post was last modified: 11-04-2019, 03:32 PM by brattzz.)
Post: #539
RE: Hyflux
How much in terms of % of their total net worth, do these directors own? That would be good to know too? 5 millions out of 60 millions is peanuts? Compared to 200k out of 300k for 60 yrs old cpf retirees.. just a thought...
=========== Signature ===========
1) Try NOT to LOSE money!
2) Do NOT SELL in BEAR, BUY-BUY-BUY! invest in managements/companies that does the same!
3) CASH in hand is KING in BEAR! 
4) In BULL, SELL-SELL-SELL! 

Find Reply
12-04-2019, 12:35 PM.
Post: #540
RE: Hyflux
(11-04-2019, 08:29 AM)ACTIVIST SPEAKS Wrote: Looking like Hyflux is going down and more than 50,000 retail investors are looking at complete write-off.  With EMA, PUB, MAS, DBS and CPF all making announcements to tell these 50,000 people that they are not remotely responsible for the downfall of Hyflux, it needs a miracle for another white knight to step forward.  A few questions in my mind which I hope can be answered before this good name company (there is a 凯 and there is a 发  and yet...) get forgotten in history.


1.   What was the reason KPMG allowed Tuaspring to remain as "Available for Sale" for more than 12 months, thereby avoiding the necessity to assess any asset impairment in 2017?

2.   How did the company, the appraiser and KPMG justify the value of Tuaspring in the books when PUB, looking at the same figures, came up with a number that is way below?

3.   Why did Hyflux go to the retail market to raise money in the 2016 perps for the purpose of redeeming another perps held mainly by institutional investors, bearing in mind that there was no obligation to redemption and Hyflux was desperately in need of money then?


There are 8 directors in Hyflux.  Olivia Lum is the only executive director, the other 7 are non executive.  6 are independent.  7 directors (including Olivia Lum) own the 2016 perps.  I do not know what is scarier - the fact the directors are unaware of the precarious position of Hyflux in 2016 or the fact they have no idea what the hell is going on all these years.

hi ACTIVIST SPEAKS,

From my understanding on your points (1)/(2), the decision to sell TS was made in Jan2017. So for fiscal close 2017, it was <12months and i suspect with Hyflux able to provide some "indication of interest" during the audit in 2018 for FY, KPMG accepted it? The numbers have always been based on "exploratory discussions based on a valuation of Tuaspring derived from a financial model of future cash flows for the project as developed by an independent consultant"

Decision to sell TS in Jan2017: https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-810-...#pid148013
indication of interest: https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-810-...#pid151117

Find Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
Valuebuddies.com | Return to Top | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication | CONTACT US: n......@valuebuddies.com