Non-financial aspects of becoming a full-time investor

[tmhy]

I believed quitting one's job and becoming a full-time investor has been discussed a number of times on this forum. It is a dream for many Singaporeans, especially those roaming around on investment forums. I do not want to talk about the financial aspects as it is easy to determine whether a person can pass the financial test of becoming a full-time investor. Just do the numbers based on past years of expense and investment gains, then add a conservative margin of safety. It is an objective exercise.

I am torn about the non-financial and social aspects of becoming a full-time investor. I would like the sensible forummers here to share their opinions openly and harshly, if you need to. Just speak your mind. I will speak my mind as well.

Here are my reservations;

- How would society view someone who is still reasonably young (early 40s) and quits his job to become a full-time investor? I do not view investing highly as a socially useful activity. Little useful stuff is created from the buying and selling of securities in the secondary market. I admit this sounds hypocritical given that I am harbouring thoughts of becoming a full-time investor.

- Investing is a lonely activity. I operate alone. When I have a job, I still have a group of friends and colleagues to talk to. After I plunge into full-time investing, the loneliness is going to be acute. 

- Am I setting a good example to my kids? "Papa is always staying at home. He is always telling me to work hard and yet he just quits his job to do his own thing. His so-called passion. Why can't I quit school to do my own thing and play computer whole day?" Will my children work less hard in life as a result? Will my children look down on me? 

- How do you answer relatives who will be surprised at a person who quits your job and staying home all day picking stocks? I don't feel comfortable revealing my financial condition. Neither do I want them to think I am not able to find a proper job and resorting to investing as a final resort. "Why doesn't this guy find a proper job and contribute to society instead of staying at home all day clicking buy and sell?" Don't want people to think I am a loser. Would it be a good idea to start a shell company and tell them I work for this company? Chinese New Year is going to be dreadful.

[karlmarx]

1) A respected hawker is one who is able to produce great tasting food. A respected investor is one who is able to grow his portfolio exponentially. Society assigns different values to different professions; doctors are more valued compared to nurses. But society always value a profession who is an expert in his field, regardless of his profession; because it takes great effort to refine and improve one's ability to produce 'good work' and hence be deemed an 'expert.' But if a full-time investor does not succeed, then society may view him as a bum who would do better with any full-time job.

2) You are right about this. One suggestion is to find part-time work so you can remain engaged in society, but not at the expense of the time you need to do research. In addition, some work will be a good distraction from the mental fatigue that can result from watching the market the whole day.

3) Same as 1. I think not if you have a huge and growing portfolio and donate monies to schools and have their libraries named after you. Ok maybe not all of us will be as rich as these people. But there are still many things you can do for society with your wealth.

4) Same as 1. A successful investor is often calm and mostly at peace with himself. He exudes confidence, without the emotional need for others to affirm his for his investing successes. Likewise, he is not likely to be bothered by people who does not see him as successful, because deep down, he knows he is an expert in his field. When you have enough money to be financially-free and possess above-average skills to be investing full time, you will not need to convince them by revealing your wealth.

[ValueMushroom]

At the end of the day, you are either defined by the society you live in or by the way you want to live. I must agree that society stigma is real if you operate away from the social "norm".

My wife and I had contemplated for a long while to do away with our full time jobs.

We started with my wife quitting her full time job of 8 years. Prior to that, she was committing 110% of her time in her job. Though it was a good learning journey, it also drained her mind and body.

Each time we meet up with friends and family, the topic of "have you found a new job?" will inevitably pop up. It seems to be a crime not to "work" in an 8-5 job. You can never be useful unless you work in an 8-5 job, judged the Society.

So you really need to consider this aspect if you want to be a full-time investor. However what I can share is that our quality of life has greatly improved, and we are looking forward for me to do away with my full time job in a few years time.

[opmi]

My responses to tmhy:

1) Why be bothered with what 'society' thinks about you? In fact, most people dont care and only interested in themselves only. What is bothering you is what you think other people thinks about you.

2) You can still have friends or make new friends. Go to AGMs and you see plenty of full-time investors around. Make friends and share/check ideas with each other. If you need to be around people or need to talk to people, full-time personal investing is not for you.

3) Related to 1. If you raised your kids thinking jobs defined a person's social status, then you did a bad job raising your kids. Do what you like/love and you never have to work a single day the rest of your life. Just make sure you bring home the bacon. Make sure you have 5-10 years of expenses stored aside. Must get buy-in from wife. Best if wife can support family on her income alone.

4) Relatives. Who cares. Dont feel the need to tell them anything. Most people think you are doing day trading or playing FX. After you can do without a 'job' for 5-10 years, they probably stop asking questions.

5) Finally, if you care about what people think of you, then probably hard to make it big in investing. Too much emotional baggage coz need social proof for your investing decisions.

[yeokiwi]

I do not view investing highly as a socially useful activity. Little useful stuff is created from the buying and selling of securities in the secondary market. I admit this sounds hypocritical given that I am harbouring thoughts of becoming a full-time investor.

I share the same thought. Investing alone is not socially useful. Yes, it generates commissions for brokers, SGX and GST but in general, it is not as useful as compared with frying and selling a plate of char-kway-teow.
But, it does not mean that you have to do investing 24x7. There are other socially useful activities in life that can complement your investing activity.

Ultimately, each person is only entitled to one life and if you think that having this kind of life is great for the next 30-40 years, why not?
But, isn't it better that you do some investing in your free times(look at SGX market, so stale and it probably looks the same whether you analyse it on monday or friday) and spend more of your times making a difference to others and yourself?
Being financially free has its advantage when it comes to defining your career, there is no need to adhere to the norm if you think the norm sucks.

[specuvestor]

IMHO issues that tmhy posted is realistic yet the psychology is not right for investment, let alone full time investment.

[Bibi]

- Am I setting a good example to my kids? "Papa is always staying at home. He is always telling me to work hard and yet he just quits his job to do his own thing. His so-called passion. Why can't I quit school to do my own thing and play computer whole day?" Will my children work less hard in life as a result? Will my children look down on me? 

Well, u can tell yr children you hv been studying hard during yr sch days and working hard for the past 10 years of yr life. Because of that you were able to accumulate enough financial resources at an early age. Now you are working hard at home to make those money work hard.

[cif5000]

I do not view investing highly as a socially useful activity. Little useful stuff is created from the buying and selling of securities in the secondary market. I admit this sounds hypocritical given that I am harbouring thoughts of becoming a full-time investor.

I share the same thought. Investing alone is not socially useful. Yes, it generates commissions for brokers, SGX and GST but in general, it is not as useful as compared with frying and selling a plate of char-kway-teow.
But, it does not mean that you have to do investing 24x7. There are other socially useful activities in life that can complement your investing activity.

Ultimately, each person is only entitled to one life and if you think that having this kind of life is great for the next 30-40 years, why not?
But, isn't it better that you do some investing in your free times(look at SGX market, so stale and it probably looks the same whether you analyse it on monday or friday) and spend more of your times making a difference to others and yourself?
Being financially free has its advantage when it comes to defining your career, there is no need to adhere to the norm if you think the norm sucks.

I have a biased observation. Useful activities generate less income than those useless ones. To the negative extreme, harmful activities can be very lucrative (think gambling, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc).

So long as the activity is harmless, I find it acceptable even if it's useless to the society. At least, the person doing it ends up happier.

[holymage]

With investing comes capital. With capital comes business. Investing is a socially useful activity that supports businesses. If there are no secondary market for trading, investors will be reluctant to invest given the lack of liquidity. Business growth will have to come from either savings or debt.

Warren buffett is a full time investor and a lot of people idolise him for his success. Ultimately I think it boils down to whether one is successful as an investor or not. If you are successful, you are having a 'real job', else you are a 'bum'.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[funman168]

Singaporean are too concerned about "face".
Just live the life you want and within your means.