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(15-12-2014, 11:39 AM)specuvestor Wrote: ^^^ If not for my young kids, I think having a car is a waste of money here since we have the most expensive cars in the world. To paraphrase Buffett, why would one wants to consume the most expensive burgers in the world?
(14-12-2014, 10:49 PM)smallcaps Wrote: IMO, using net worth to judge one's financials is like using net assets to judge a company. Too little information to work on.
Even the usual method of computing net worth seems weird to me, since a cap rate is not assigned to the person's ability to earn $$ through his skillset.
If a person is capable of $100k in pass through salary annually, and applying cap rate of 10%, should he himself be considered as $1 mil in assets?
Computing net worth is like computing RNAV. You can use cap rates on the assets to arrive at his Net Worth but either way doesn't look at growth potential.
The value way is to look at the ROIC instead. And that is based not on pass through salary but actually how much one saves ie "earnings" after expenses, post other non-employment income like stocks or rentals. Singapore's CPF system does put a floor on the "earnings" which helps to explain why we have so many "millionaires" here, including housing asset.
(13-12-2014, 08:49 AM)pianist Wrote: (13-12-2014, 01:56 AM)specuvestor Wrote: ^^ agree... When young got time and energy, mid-age got energy and money, old-age got time and money. It is a trade off that we need to manage wisely else too late to rewind
If one is disciplined in saving (ie manage expense) and wise in investing then calculating net worth is not crucial... It is only important when one needs to remind oneself
Quote: In the 37th-floor lobby of GIC's headquarters at Capital Tower, an aphorism from its late deputy chairman Goh Keng Swee is inscribed on a wall. "The more you save and the more wisely you invest, the faster you get rich." u worked there?
It's a quote but very typical of pragmatic Goh Keng Swee... He is a man I credit for being instrumental to what Singapore is today. We owe him.
http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-5552-...#pid102725 sg's gdp per capital was 3rd globally last year..seems like a lot of people like to eat expensive burgers here
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16-12-2014, 08:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 16-12-2014, 08:37 PM by Temperament.)
If we own but don't use a car for more than 4 to 5 hours /day, i think it's really a waste of money. And whenever i park my 9 years-old car in any HDB's car-park, i always wonder why the car park is always almost full up to the 3rd floor? Then why own a car then? And i imagine all these money goes to whose pocket? Imagine if i have the value of 100K worth car as invested in the stock market@ 4 to 5 % p/a, how much interest i can collect and to use it as taxi rides and what not? Not to mention my 100K capital still "intact" and may even increases in capital due to stock prices movement.
Yes i definitely going to scrap my car even though my car is in very good condition and only clocked 128000+ KM. What a waste of money for us. No wonder though Singapore is only a "RED DOT" all the car manufacturing companies love Singapore. See the number of New models car introduce in Singapore is amazing.
You will be surprised, i see some old men (60 to 70) driving new Merce and Lexus.
For them they may thinking (actually that's what i imagine) what the heck i can't bring it (money) with me, i might as well spend some of it before i go.
May be i will go out of mind one day and buy one?
No?
Who knows?
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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(16-12-2014, 08:34 PM)Temperament Wrote: If we own but don't use a car for more than 4 to 5 hours /day, i think it's really a waste of money. And whenever i park my 9 years-old car in any HDB's car-park, i always wonder why the car park is always almost full up to the 3rd floor? Then why own a car then? And i imagine all these money goes to whose pocket? Imagine if i have the value of 100K worth car as invested in the stock market@ 4 to 5 % p/a, how much interest i can collect and to use it as taxi rides and what not? Not to mention my 100K capital still "intact" and may even increases in capital due to stock prices movement.
Yes i definitely going to scrap my car even though my car is in very good condition and only clocked 128000+ KM. What a waste of money for us. No wonder though Singapore is only a "RED DOT" all the car manufacturing companies love Singapore. See the number of New models car introduce in Singapore is amazing.
You will be surprised, i see some old men (60 to 70) driving new Merce and Lexus.
For them they may thinking (actually that's what i imagine) what the heck i can't bring it (money) with me, i might as well spend some of it before i go.
May be i will go out of mind one day and buy one?
No?
Who knows?
In fact owning a car in Singapore is purely for status not for convenience. Lots of people in Singapore that I knew place car as first priority over housing, which against my perspective. Most of the people drives from point A to B everyday, at point A they pay 90 parking a month, at point B probably more than 200 a month, including ERP and petrol already more than the cost of taking cab every day. So why they still drive, because their colleagues are driving, their friends are driving. This is the problem on human mindset and not because of the government policies, that's why the TDSR and all sort of changes to the COE system won't help. Private transportation is always a big source of income to the government, so with or without cheap COE, owning a car will still be very expensive "enjoyment".
I have been always wanted to buy a car as well, but I just seriously think about it, (i) do I prefer to own a car or (ii) do I prefer the people I know don't own a car? I prefer the latter.
Anyway uncle Temperament, when are you changing your vios for merc?
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I beg to differ though or I could be one of the few exceptionally cases.
I bought a car because I want to spend less time traveling and more time with my family. I find traveling time is a waste of time and I rather use the time saved with something more meaningful in my life.
Most of the time the car is in the garage is because the car owners are already at home, spending quality time with their family. Why spend 1.5 hours to get from point A to point B, when I can just take 0.5 hours. A round trip will save me 2 hours.
In addition, it is a lot easier to get things done with a car.
The cons are that my expenses will go up.
Weighing the two, I prefer to save my time rather than saving on my expense.
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My take on cars and net asset...
1)Do not spend >10% of your net worth on car.
So just do your maths, if u have 1mil then at most u can spend 100k on cars.
2) Do not take car loan.
3) price of entry for coe is impt.
My next car should be a merc E-class if everything is according to plan... 
The thing about karma, It always comes around and bite you when you least expected.
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17-12-2014, 07:45 AM
(This post was last modified: 17-12-2014, 07:46 AM by corydorus.)
If your ROI is higher with having a personal Car, i think you should.
Meaning after Increase (Expense) less than Increase(Earning Power from Efficiency and Power)
Notice i did not include personal satisfaction or quality of life as this means living beyond your means.
For those in grey area, is personal preference i guess. 
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(17-12-2014, 01:38 AM)WolfT Wrote: My take on cars and net asset...
1)Do not spend >10% of your net worth on car.
So just do your maths, if u have 1mil then at most u can spend 100k on cars.
2) Do not take car loan.
3) price of entry for coe is impt.
My next car should be a merc E-class if everything is according to plan...
The price of MERC E-Class is easily above $250K, thus your net worth is far above $2.5 mil. 
“夏则资皮，冬则资纱，旱则资船，水则资车” - 范蠡
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I tend not to look at cost of car vs % of net worth as gauge of affordability. Net worth can be very high but income not. Then it might be a perilous ratio. Imo,
it shd be total car expenses per year verses income.
for a very popular toyota altis sedan, all in ie depreciation, petrol, maintenance, insurance, parking, fines etc it might work out to nearly $20kpa.
So if a person earns 200kpa, an altis would be a very comfortable 10% portion of his salary.
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I concur with the bench-marking of car affordability with income, instead of net worth. It consistent with my approach with stock selection, which prioritizing earning, over net asset.
Having said so, the best still a multiple approach mean. Bench-marking with both % of net worth and income, and ROI which include the intangibles as highlighted by cory. Look at all the numbers, then the decision.
“夏则资皮，冬则资纱，旱则资船，水则资车” - 范蠡
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Hi Cityfarmer
Must see how much the COE, it may goes down to 200k if COE is cheaper.
Hi Paul
Hmmm.I could add total car expenses per year verses income to be my pt 4. Muhahahaha..
I do know people who earn 300kpa but net worth is less than 1mil.
The thing about karma, It always comes around and bite you when you least expected.
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