Temasek Holdings

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#31
I am still amaze that people still believe we have the greatest fund manager in Singapore....

From State to Temasek
http://leongszehian.com/?p=774


Let’s just talk briefly about one deal between Temasek and the government. The sale of Changi Airport in 2009 for a reported S$3.3 billion. Temasek (under Ho Ching) paid this price with a cash injection from the government (under PM Lee). Yet Changi Airport was reported as having total assets of S$7.2 billion. Not to mention the fact that it sits on 1,300 hectares of valuable land. It’s interesting to look at how much that land itself might have been worth. Also in 2009, a 1.4 hectare land parcel at Jurong West was sold for S$38.5 million, that is about $2.75 million per hectare, which pro-rated for the size of Changi Airport puts the land value alone at more than ten times what Temasek paid for the land plus airport. Or to put it another way, you could demolish Changi Airport and bulldoze the runways, and just the land itself would still be worth more than Temasek paid for the worlds greatest airport. This is the sort of sweetheart deal that allows Temasek to claim unrealistic and inflated returns.
http://therealsingapore.com/content/trut...sein-loong
You can find more of my postings in http://investideas.net/forum/
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#31
I am still amaze that people still believe we have the greatest fund manager in Singapore....

From State to Temasek
http://leongszehian.com/?p=774


Let’s just talk briefly about one deal between Temasek and the government. The sale of Changi Airport in 2009 for a reported S$3.3 billion. Temasek (under Ho Ching) paid this price with a cash injection from the government (under PM Lee). Yet Changi Airport was reported as having total assets of S$7.2 billion. Not to mention the fact that it sits on 1,300 hectares of valuable land. It’s interesting to look at how much that land itself might have been worth. Also in 2009, a 1.4 hectare land parcel at Jurong West was sold for S$38.5 million, that is about $2.75 million per hectare, which pro-rated for the size of Changi Airport puts the land value alone at more than ten times what Temasek paid for the land plus airport. Or to put it another way, you could demolish Changi Airport and bulldoze the runways, and just the land itself would still be worth more than Temasek paid for the worlds greatest airport. This is the sort of sweetheart deal that allows Temasek to claim unrealistic and inflated returns.
http://therealsingapore.com/content/trut...sein-loong
You can find more of my postings in http://investideas.net/forum/
Reply
#32
Temasek good meh?

Sell state assets to public listed co.

Pidemco Land > dbs land > CAPL

POSB > DBS

JTC Indu factories > Ascendas/ Mapletree

Vivocity land > Mapletree

Hdb Surbana > Temasek (note: Hdb give retrenchment package to those Hdb people who were then rehired by Surbana)

Vb, feels free to add to the list.

Fishhead: Without these, Temasek still good?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"... but quitting while you're ahead is not the same as quitting." - Quote from the movie American Gangster
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#32
Temasek good meh?

Sell state assets to public listed co.

Pidemco Land > dbs land > CAPL

POSB > DBS

JTC Indu factories > Ascendas/ Mapletree

Vivocity land > Mapletree

Hdb Surbana > Temasek (note: Hdb give retrenchment package to those Hdb people who were then rehired by Surbana)

Vb, feels free to add to the list.

Fishhead: Without these, Temasek still good?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"... but quitting while you're ahead is not the same as quitting." - Quote from the movie American Gangster
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#33
Behappyalways
First of all, the article is obviously bias. Just put one example "Can Temasek and the government prove that no errors have been made?" it is like asking can you prove that you never make any mistake in your life. When the article comes into this kind of question. It is the "mindless song" that I mentioned earlier.

Second, not sure the source of your airport example, but just use it. Can you compare a piece of land at Jurong West with Changi Airport? The answer is NO. There is no fair value can be used to justify the price of Changi Airport, because there is no airport nearby sold in the market.

In this case, the price of Changi Airport may need to use cash flow for valuation. Changi Airport is great airport for sure, but the cost of running it is huge also. The profitability of this asset may not be so great as you imaging. During crisis time, there was US town sell at $1 price. If you can remove everything on top, just take the land, most likely you will make huge profit, but in fact, you will need huge cash injection to maintain the town. Buying Changi Airport is buying a business not a piece of land, the example is misleading.
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#33
Behappyalways
First of all, the article is obviously bias. Just put one example "Can Temasek and the government prove that no errors have been made?" it is like asking can you prove that you never make any mistake in your life. When the article comes into this kind of question. It is the "mindless song" that I mentioned earlier.

Second, not sure the source of your airport example, but just use it. Can you compare a piece of land at Jurong West with Changi Airport? The answer is NO. There is no fair value can be used to justify the price of Changi Airport, because there is no airport nearby sold in the market.

In this case, the price of Changi Airport may need to use cash flow for valuation. Changi Airport is great airport for sure, but the cost of running it is huge also. The profitability of this asset may not be so great as you imaging. During crisis time, there was US town sell at $1 price. If you can remove everything on top, just take the land, most likely you will make huge profit, but in fact, you will need huge cash injection to maintain the town. Buying Changi Airport is buying a business not a piece of land, the example is misleading.
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#34
opmi

Are you thinking selling asset to a reits or listed company meaning the seller (in your examples, the SG government) is always the loser?

But Lee Ka Shing sold Suntec city and many assets to Suntec Reits. Don't you think he is stupid and you are smarter. 10+ year after he sold Suntec city, now he is still the richest man in Asia.

One funny example
"Vivocity land > Mapletree" You are suggesting the government shall take over all developer's job to build shopping mall by themselves. Otherwise it is selling national asset? Are you sure you are not a foreign talent from North Korea. Smile
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#34
opmi

Are you thinking selling asset to a reits or listed company meaning the seller (in your examples, the SG government) is always the loser?

But Lee Ka Shing sold Suntec city and many assets to Suntec Reits. Don't you think he is stupid and you are smarter. 10+ year after he sold Suntec city, now he is still the richest man in Asia.

One funny example
"Vivocity land > Mapletree" You are suggesting the government shall take over all developer's job to build shopping mall by themselves. Otherwise it is selling national asset? Are you sure you are not a foreign talent from North Korea. Smile
Reply
#35
If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG
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#35
If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG
Reply
#36
Fish Head: Go read about those transactions in their context before u generalize.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"... but quitting while you're ahead is not the same as quitting." - Quote from the movie American Gangster
Reply
#36
Fish Head: Go read about those transactions in their context before u generalize.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"... but quitting while you're ahead is not the same as quitting." - Quote from the movie American Gangster
Reply
#37
(14-10-2014, 11:49 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG

I am a bit skeptical on the view, thus to find out more.

Base on wikipedia, home ownership rate of Singapore and Australia are
Singapore - 90.5%
Australia - 67%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...rship_rate

The Singapore number consistent with SingStat, but I don't have any to tally with Australia number. Let's assume it is trust-able. It means easier to own a house in Singapore than Australia. Isn't it? Big Grin
“夏则资皮,冬则资纱,旱则资船,水则资车” - 范蠡
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#37
(14-10-2014, 11:49 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG

I am a bit skeptical on the view, thus to find out more.

Base on wikipedia, home ownership rate of Singapore and Australia are
Singapore - 90.5%
Australia - 67%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...rship_rate

The Singapore number consistent with SingStat, but I don't have any to tally with Australia number. Let's assume it is trust-able. It means easier to own a house in Singapore than Australia. Isn't it? Big Grin
“夏则资皮,冬则资纱,旱则资船,水则资车” - 范蠡
Reply
#38
My 2 cents is on the whole our G is in almost in every aspects of our lives.
Generally i feel G is taking "too much" from us and giving back too little.
You can say from CPF, HDB, ERP, Toto, 4D, COE, Utilities, Stocks (like securitize Singapore's assets to Singaporeans {like REITS}; worse case sell Singapore assets to Foreign countries)
i am just a man-in-street feeling our G aiming to be forever be the G (The Elite Class).
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
Reply
#38
My 2 cents is on the whole our G is in almost in every aspects of our lives.
Generally i feel G is taking "too much" from us and giving back too little.
You can say from CPF, HDB, ERP, Toto, 4D, COE, Utilities, Stocks (like securitize Singapore's assets to Singaporeans {like REITS}; worse case sell Singapore assets to Foreign countries)
i am just a man-in-street feeling our G aiming to be forever be the G (The Elite Class).
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
Reply
#39
(14-10-2014, 11:49 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG

Still doable in Singapore lah.
I am 27 this year and already servicing my HDB loan (~260k). My CPF alone is enough.
If you minus 2 years of NS, I have even lesser working experience.
Reply
#39
(14-10-2014, 11:49 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: If you talk to seasoned local businessmen, GLCs crowded out local guys.

Frankly, REIT in Singapore IMHO has resulted in high structural costs that is added on top asset inflation in which safe haven like Singapore has always been attracting.

I don't admire Singaporeans as many lack ownership of material things in particular the younger generations.

The lack of ownership is adverse as it will no longer drive the new generations since no matter how hard they work, their aim of ownership will always be far from them.

Being a parent of young generations, I would rather to see my kids eventually live in a society that enables ownership through hard work. While direct taxes in such countries could be high, i have heard of cases where hard work still pays.

My friends child aged 26 is already servicing a mortgage to own a modest house down under with her sole income and certainly I don't forsee that happening in Singapore.

GG

Still doable in Singapore lah.
I am 27 this year and already servicing my HDB loan (~260k). My CPF alone is enough.
If you minus 2 years of NS, I have even lesser working experience.
Reply
#40
(15-10-2014, 12:37 PM)Temperament Wrote: My 2 cents is on the whole our G is in almost in every aspects of our lives.
Generally i feel G is taking "too much" from us and giving back too little.
You can say from CPF, HDB, ERP, Toto, 4D, COE, Utilities, Stocks (like securitize Singapore's assets to Singaporeans {like REITS}; worse case sell Singapore assets to Foreign countries)
i am just a man-in-street feeling our G aiming to be forever be the G (The Elite Class).

Hi temperament, that is a fact if you consider gic and temasek as gov linked

Many of our wireless networking and computerised biz solution has temasek influence in the form of a company called telechoice, power and utilities: sp power and keppel has a presence. The major industries of sg has a dominant temasek linked coy in it. All 3 telecos have temasek links

If I am to go further, there is an industry of private companies which depend heavily on govt and stat board for IT procurement contracts. The construction industry heavily relies on govt contract and the temasek linked property counters. All in all, I believe the govt directly or indirectly hires "60%" of our workforce

Lastly please note we are not owners but lessee of the hdb strata units.
Reply
#40
(15-10-2014, 12:37 PM)Temperament Wrote: My 2 cents is on the whole our G is in almost in every aspects of our lives.
Generally i feel G is taking "too much" from us and giving back too little.
You can say from CPF, HDB, ERP, Toto, 4D, COE, Utilities, Stocks (like securitize Singapore's assets to Singaporeans {like REITS}; worse case sell Singapore assets to Foreign countries)
i am just a man-in-street feeling our G aiming to be forever be the G (The Elite Class).

Hi temperament, that is a fact if you consider gic and temasek as gov linked

Many of our wireless networking and computerised biz solution has temasek influence in the form of a company called telechoice, power and utilities: sp power and keppel has a presence. The major industries of sg has a dominant temasek linked coy in it. All 3 telecos have temasek links

If I am to go further, there is an industry of private companies which depend heavily on govt and stat board for IT procurement contracts. The construction industry heavily relies on govt contract and the temasek linked property counters. All in all, I believe the govt directly or indirectly hires "60%" of our workforce

Lastly please note we are not owners but lessee of the hdb strata units.
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