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Yes! How come Malaysia's EPF always return so much better than our CPF? Is Malaysia GOV a better or smarter investor than our Papys? . i remember when our local banks FD rate at 5 or 6 %, CPF also was at 2.5%. That's one of the reasons CPFIS started when too many people made noises at that time. Now............ ??? but you have your CPFIS what? You lose money then you will know 2.5 % is not so easy to get, safely. No? NO.
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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07-07-2013, 11:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2013, 11:34 PM by tanjm.)
Once more politics rears its ugly head. I couldn't resist answering this though. Now, I can understand an argument that CPF board should take on equity risk on behalf of its members to try to enhance returns, but to compare a riskless to a risky return is quite disingenuous for a supposedly sophisticated investor - so it must be politics (esp when you use loaded words like "Papys").
About the returns...
Malaysia fixed deposit rates are currently about 3.2% for a 1Y deposit. So 6.15% is about 300bp above that. Not too bad, but not terribly good either (for a fund that takes equity risk). CPF rate (which is riskless) ranges from 2.5% to 4% depending on OA/SA compared to the very low deposit rates currently here.
I'm pretty sure many forumers here claim they can get easily 6-10% by investing themselves. Please do, so. There's this thing called a CPF investment account.
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(07-07-2013, 11:27 PM)tanjm Wrote: Once more politics rears its ugly head. I couldn't resist answering this though. Now, I can understand an argument that CPF board should take on equity risk on behalf of its members to try to enhance returns, but to compare a riskless to a risky return is quite disingenuous for a supposedly sophisticated investor - so it must be politics (esp when you use loaded words like "Papys").
About the returns...
Malaysia fixed deposit rates are currently about 3.2% for a 1Y deposit. So 6.15% is about 300bp above that. Not too bad, but not terribly good either (for a fund that takes equity risk). CPF rate (which is riskless) ranges from 2.5% to 4% depending on OA/SA compared to the very low deposit rates currently here.
I'm pretty sure many forumers here claim they can get easily 6-10% by investing themselves. Please do, so. There's this thing called a CPF investment account.
exactly. It's not that CPF does not give smart investors a chance to manage their own CPF money. To withdraw from CPF is totally different question.
CPF just provides a floor interest rate for those not so smart investors.
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(07-07-2013, 11:40 PM)freedom Wrote: (07-07-2013, 11:27 PM)tanjm Wrote: Once more politics rears its ugly head. I couldn't resist answering this though. Now, I can understand an argument that CPF board should take on equity risk on behalf of its members to try to enhance returns, but to compare a riskless to a risky return is quite disingenuous for a supposedly sophisticated investor - so it must be politics (esp when you use loaded words like "Papys").
About the returns...
Malaysia fixed deposit rates are currently about 3.2% for a 1Y deposit. So 6.15% is about 300bp above that. Not too bad, but not terribly good either (for a fund that takes equity risk). CPF rate (which is riskless) ranges from 2.5% to 4% depending on OA/SA compared to the very low deposit rates currently here.
I'm pretty sure many forumers here claim they can get easily 6-10% by investing themselves. Please do, so. There's this thing called a CPF investment account.
exactly. It's not that CPF does not give smart investors a chance to manage their own CPF money. To withdraw from CPF is totally different question.
CPF just provides a floor interest rate for those not so smart investors. Yes but still why Malaysia GOV. has better EPF returns? Did EPF returns ever fell below their banks FD rate? Huh? Have it ever happened? Please enlighten? Politics or no politics, money involve is always more than politics man!
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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So did CPF return below SG bank FD rate? For the last 10 years, I think it hasn't. I am not sure before.
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08-07-2013, 09:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2013, 09:21 AM by pianist.)
How can monies in cpf be risk free when it can't even beat the fundamental inflation risk and resulting in minimum sum locked in increasing almost every year. pple's retirement monies is eroded by just placing it dumply unless one can be like what others say - "there is this thing called cpf investment account" which i dun expect most pple to be as smart as some in this forum..hehe
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08-07-2013, 07:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2013, 08:13 PM by tanjm.)
(08-07-2013, 09:08 AM)pianist Wrote: How can monies in cpf be risk free when it can't even beat the fundamental inflation risk and resulting in minimum sum locked in increasing almost every year. pple's retirement monies is eroded by just placing it dumply unless one can be like what others say - "there is this thing called cpf investment account" which i dun expect most pple to be as smart as some in this forum..hehe
Please check the definition of riskfree in the context of market risk. Or even if you decline to do so, please at least acknowledge there's a difference in policy and there's a choice given. EPF isn't clean you know. In the past its been known to prop up local companies as a "national service". Don't believe me? Use google.
Complain when there is too much government but also complain when there's not enough government intervention!
Anyway I googled "Malaysia EPF prop up" and within the first search page alone, I had the following links. Obviously, not everything on the internet is trustworthy.... but just goes to show EPF has its critics as well. Can you imagine what if Singapore government decided to also do what EPF does (invest in stock market with CPF funds)? Think of the storm of invective from S'poreans - you can't win!
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categor...s-to-govt/
http://hornbillunleashed.wordpress.com/2.../07/47893/
http://ipsnews2.wpengine.com/1998/06/mal...sion-fund/
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categor...ed-to-buy/
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/10/25/r...e-protest/
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/category/epf/
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index....z2YSDCfhuv
http://my.news.yahoo.com/epf-kwap-lost-r...35954.html
I also quickly pulled up the KLSE index historical series. In the last 10 years, it went from between 600 to 800 (depending on your starting point) to roughly 1800. That's roughly a 8 to 11% compounded return (depending on when you are measuring). So the EPF track record isn't terribly impressive ( http://www.kwsp.gov.my/portal/about-epf/...dend-rates) for equity investments.
Plus the controversy over some EPF investment decisions, one might think you'd be better off making your own investment decisions.
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I would also like to add that each country is rated by rating agencies and Singapore is AAA; whereas Malaysia is A-. There is no prize for guessing which country's sovereign bond will get higher interest.
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09-07-2013, 09:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2013, 10:00 AM by sgd.)
Quote: Can you imagine what if Singapore government decided to also do what EPF does (invest in stock market with CPF funds)? Think of the storm of invective from S'poreans - you can't win!
Investing and nurturing local companies to promote growth who in turn provide opportunities for it's citizens? Isn't that suppose to be the social responsibility of a government? I don't see anything wrong with them investing in their own backyard.
You can now go to kazanah website download their Annual report to read and even criticise. The very facts that you and everybody can do that to read and criticise or google about it is because they have put the info out there for web search engines to cull.
You can even view the portfolio of local companies that they have on the website.
What they have done is nothing less than being FULLY TRANSPARENT do you consider our SWF to be fully transparent? Don't give me that crap excuse about trying to hide it to prevent speculators.
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The Man, the Boy, and the Donkey
A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market.
As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them
and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"
So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their
way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See
that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."
So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself.
But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom
said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little
son trudge along."
Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his
Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to
the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The
Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said:
"Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey
with you and your hulking son?"
The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They
thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied
the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to
their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met
them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one
of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end
of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and
his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.
"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:
"Please all, and you will please none."
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