Sino Grandness

[specuvestor]

Hi all

There is an article published on nextinsight on repayment terms.
Have a read.

cheers
oldman9

Seems like an article written by a VB forumer

At least the status of the bonds are clear now: They are restructured and creditors effectively agreed to a partial redemption first. I am assuming it had been agreed after the auditors finalised their accounts as the auditors had assumed 31 Dec 2016 maturity for the whole lot.  

That means SinoG will have quite a substantial extraordinary profit for 1Q16 on accounting reversals for the 40% CB converted to straight bonds. I think there is also a bit of confusion on this restructuring: 60% of the CB remains as it is with maturity extended to ~ Dec 2016 and i/r of 20% and 25% but 40% is restructured into straight bonds of maturity 31 May and ~ Dec 2016

Based on the article the company has RMB143m cash on hand and paying RMB106.9m for the SB1 bondholders on May31. Reasonable guess is that the IPO won't happen before 31 May as exchange filing is probably not in time to lodge and I presume we yet to know who are the sponsor and auditor.

What is also interesting is that it revealed for the 1st time officially the main holders of the bonds as CDIB, GS and Hon Chuan. Hon Chuan interest is actually quite small at around $1m for 40%.

I think it is likely that we wil have to ask about the IPO again in AGM. Cashflow wise it is very disconcerting.

[Oldman9]

Hi all

There is an article published on nextinsight on repayment terms.
Have a read.

cheers
oldman9

Seems like an article written by a VB forumer

At least the status of the bonds are clear now: They are restructured and creditors effectively agreed to a partial redemption first. I am assuming it had been agreed after the auditors finalised their accounts as the auditors had assumed 31 Dec 2016 maturity for the whole lot.  

That means SinoG will have quite a substantial extraordinary profit for 1Q16 on accounting reversals for the 40% CB converted to straight bonds. I think there is also a bit of confusion on this restructuring: 60% of the CB remains as it is with maturity ~ Dec 2016 and i/r of 20% and 25% but 40% is restructured into straight bonds of maturity 31 May and ~ Dec 2016

Based on the article the company has RMB143m cash on hand and paying RMB106.9m for the SB1 bondholders on May31. Reasonable guess is that the IPO won't happen before 31 May as exchange filing is probably not in time to lodge and I presume we yet to know who are the sponsor and auditor.

What is also interesting is that it revealed for the 1st time officially the main holders of the bonds as CDIB, GS and Hon Chuan. Hon Chuan interest is actually quite small at around $1m for 40%.

I think it is likely that we wil have to ask about the IPO again in AGM.

Hi Specuvestor

Welcome back. Long time no see/talk.

Glad that you are contributing.

cheers
Oldman9

[PkNanas]

We will know by May this year if the company has real hard cash to pay what they promised.

The way I look at it, why bondholders willing to take 'haircut' of their benefit (ipo conversion rate, interest rate) is because they are getting more and more impatient and unsecured by the delay strategy of SG management. The ipo can be delayed forever, so most realistic is to get back the hard cash.

Let's see if SG chu pattern again when comes to payment date. We shall wait and see...

Yup another quarter to see anymore pattern, I am betting a fund raising exercise before that with excuse of more expansion or sexy acquisition story.

I find the logic of the partial payment funny leh, if IPO can make so much, SG should just pay back the CB completely and keep all the IPO profits for themselves. And why not whilst they are at it, since share price is so depressed, launch a privatisation to keep all the IPO moolah for themselves??

really "pattern duo guo badminton"

hope investors dun kena played until "song song kau Jurong"

Can it be explained as followed?
- the cash has to come from either future operation cash flow or new share sale in the IPO;
- currently it has not enough cash to pay off the bond, hence IPO should take place in coming 3 months, else bank loan if IPO does not happen in 3 months, then IPO should happen within 12 months.

[alex]

Hi all, Can we at least try to summarize the doubts for SG, followed by some opinions? Else, i think the topics are off and bias kicks in at all levels of discussions.

1) Fake business outright - Big PONZI scheme
2) Poor management and transparency
3) Fake sales
4) Poor cash management

Please kindly help to contribute if possible so that this thread can get back to good sharing/discussions.

[Oldman9]

Hi all, Can we at least try to summarize the doubts for SG, followed by some opinions? Else, i think the topics are off and bias kicks in at all levels of discussions.

1) Fake business outright - Big PONZI scheme
2) Poor management and transparency
3) Fake sales
4) Poor cash management

Please kindly help to contribute if possible so that this thread can get back to good sharing/discussions.

Hi Alex

From my short time here @VB and reading through some of the posts,Oldman thinks no point. Skeptics will be skeptics and arguments will be meaningless. Sino has over time proved them wrong time and again but there will be those that will nitpick over every little thing.

And like it or not, there will always be doubters and skeptics. You cannot win them all over.

cheers
oldman9

[Oldman9]

Hi All

I hope the above post does not deter anyone from posting. Please continue to post your thoughts and opinion but with facts please.
Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

[chinafarmer]

Hi All

I hope the above post does not deter anyone from posting. Please continue to post your thoughts and opinion but with facts please.
Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

I have noticed how a concerted group of loquat supporters have always slammed critics and accused them of shorting, spreading fear etc. Many forummers are here to just share views and opposing views should be welcome.

[crubs]

Hi All

I hope the above post does not deter anyone from posting. Please continue to post your thoughts and opinion but with facts please.
Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

I have noticed how a concerted group of loquat supporters have always slammed critics and accused them of shorting, spreading fear etc. Many forummers are here to just share views and opposing views should be welcome.

Sino Grandness used to be an easy target by short-sellers and skeptics because it is an S-Chip and business is doing very well. Thankfully several people with in depth knowledge have shared their knowledge on this forum and other websites like NextInsight. Those who have read with an open mind, thought through it and bought at 30c have reaped the rewards today. Based on the events that have occurred (EGM, CB announcement), it is clear which view is right.

[swang107]

Please allow my 5 cents here.

I have been long since last year, and had been picking up more speculatively. At no point did I curse those with negative views, I am grateful because they did address my underlying doubts. And the ensuring fiery discussion here has helped to solidify my conviction, and to judge for myself 'what is in the price?'. The income statement in the end, as we see in this case, is an accounting point of view. Right now with the CB terms reset, what is the revised value of the company? Anyone?

So my point is that, this is a forum, and thanks for the healthy exchange of views. It has been more helpful than what i see elsewhere with comments like "Huat ah! $10 soon!"

[crubs]

Please allow my 5 cents here.

I have been long since last year, and had been picking up more speculatively. At no point did I curse those with negative views, I am grateful because they did address my underlying doubts. And the ensuring fiery discussion here has helped to solidify my conviction, and to judge for myself 'what is in the price?'. The income statement in the end, as we see in this case, is an accounting point of view. Right now with the CB terms reset, what is the revised value of the company? Anyone?

So my point is that, this is a forum, and thanks for the healthy exchange of views. It has been more helpful than what i see elsewhere with comments like "Huat ah! $10 soon!"

Hi swang107,

you might want to take a look at this article.

http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php/sto...t-on-bonds

If Garden Fresh IPOs at 15x 2015 earnings, Sino Grandness' current theoretical  (85.28%) stake would be worth SGD1.1bn
If a PE of 12x given to its other businesses will make it around SGD310m
The total value will be roughly SGD1.4bn

However, note that Sino Grandness' stake in GF will be lower because of sale of new shares and sale of vendor shares. While the percentages are not finalised, the upside is still substantial.