Tuan Sing Holdings

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#21
Below statement is extrated from AR2012.(pg 116)
It stated clearly that Revenue is recognise base on progressive work done.


Revenue from sales of development properties
Revenue from completed property development is recognised when the risks and rewards of ownership have been transferred to the purchaser either through the transfer of legal title or equitable interest in a property.

Revenue recognition on partly completed properties held for sale is based on the following methods:

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under progressive payment scheme, profit is recognised upon the signing of sales contracts and payment of the first instalment which corresponds to 20% of the estimated profit attributable to the actual contracts signed.
Subsequent recognition of profit is based on the percentage of completion method as construction progresses. The percentage of work completed is measured based on the construction and related costs incurred to date as a proportion of the estimated total construction and related costs;

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under deferred payment scheme and overseas development properties, profit is recognised only upon the transfer of significant risks and rewards of ownership of the properties to the purchasers.




(10-06-2013, 08:25 PM)l0nEr Wrote:
(21-05-2013, 09:18 PM)Behappyalways Wrote: One deep lesson I learnt from buying property counters is that even though they might sell their projects very well, the revenues from the sales will take some time to come on stream. Take Sing Holdings for example. The Laurels was 70% sold (if I remember correctly) when it was launched in Feb/Mar 2010....The tender for construction was awarded in Apr 2010 to Lian Beng and the contribution to earning was not really visible till 2012...A project sells well but unless you really intend to hold till its TOP which might be 2-3 years time I do not advise investing in it because during this mean time(from launch to TOP), the stock market might turn negative while the initial contribution to bottom line is negligible. (Sing Holdings fell to as low as 24 cents in 2011 when the stock market tanked even though The Laurels was selling pretty well)

Although I admit that the buzz(from the good sales during launch) might improve the share price.

My own personal view is that it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly. I believed some of the guys holding Sing Holdings as long as me might agree with what I said.

not vested and not a call to buy or sell Tuan Sing.....

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me


http://www.ura.gov.sg/lad/HBG/progressPayments.htm

hi hi. you talking about an issue with accounting recognition?
I think Ho Bee recognises by stage of completion, so the revenue comes in progressively over the years. I believe Tuan Sing should be the case too (forgot my accounting policy, please refer to INT FRS 115, but i think for HDB and China properties recognise on delivery)

On theory, the market should react on the point of sales, because the cash flow is kinda locked in, and should be reflected in the stock price. Most China properties stocks react accordingly when their monthly contracted sales (i.e. when the sales contracted is signed but coudl be before construction) are announced. In Singapore and stocks like Tuan Sing, I believe its probably just lack of liquidity and information that is causing the market to react slowly?
As you said, if Tuan Sing recognises only on delivery, this could be opportunity to monitor the project sale price and delivery date, use it to forecast delivery and hence revenue recognition, and therefore predict the earnings. This is basically what property research analysts do actually, just that nobody really covers tuan sing.
Reply
#21
Below statement is extrated from AR2012.(pg 116)
It stated clearly that Revenue is recognise base on progressive work done.


Revenue from sales of development properties
Revenue from completed property development is recognised when the risks and rewards of ownership have been transferred to the purchaser either through the transfer of legal title or equitable interest in a property.

Revenue recognition on partly completed properties held for sale is based on the following methods:

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under progressive payment scheme, profit is recognised upon the signing of sales contracts and payment of the first instalment which corresponds to 20% of the estimated profit attributable to the actual contracts signed.
Subsequent recognition of profit is based on the percentage of completion method as construction progresses. The percentage of work completed is measured based on the construction and related costs incurred to date as a proportion of the estimated total construction and related costs;

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under deferred payment scheme and overseas development properties, profit is recognised only upon the transfer of significant risks and rewards of ownership of the properties to the purchasers.




(10-06-2013, 08:25 PM)l0nEr Wrote:
(21-05-2013, 09:18 PM)Behappyalways Wrote: One deep lesson I learnt from buying property counters is that even though they might sell their projects very well, the revenues from the sales will take some time to come on stream. Take Sing Holdings for example. The Laurels was 70% sold (if I remember correctly) when it was launched in Feb/Mar 2010....The tender for construction was awarded in Apr 2010 to Lian Beng and the contribution to earning was not really visible till 2012...A project sells well but unless you really intend to hold till its TOP which might be 2-3 years time I do not advise investing in it because during this mean time(from launch to TOP), the stock market might turn negative while the initial contribution to bottom line is negligible. (Sing Holdings fell to as low as 24 cents in 2011 when the stock market tanked even though The Laurels was selling pretty well)

Although I admit that the buzz(from the good sales during launch) might improve the share price.

My own personal view is that it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly. I believed some of the guys holding Sing Holdings as long as me might agree with what I said.

not vested and not a call to buy or sell Tuan Sing.....

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me


http://www.ura.gov.sg/lad/HBG/progressPayments.htm

hi hi. you talking about an issue with accounting recognition?
I think Ho Bee recognises by stage of completion, so the revenue comes in progressively over the years. I believe Tuan Sing should be the case too (forgot my accounting policy, please refer to INT FRS 115, but i think for HDB and China properties recognise on delivery)

On theory, the market should react on the point of sales, because the cash flow is kinda locked in, and should be reflected in the stock price. Most China properties stocks react accordingly when their monthly contracted sales (i.e. when the sales contracted is signed but coudl be before construction) are announced. In Singapore and stocks like Tuan Sing, I believe its probably just lack of liquidity and information that is causing the market to react slowly?
As you said, if Tuan Sing recognises only on delivery, this could be opportunity to monitor the project sale price and delivery date, use it to forecast delivery and hence revenue recognition, and therefore predict the earnings. This is basically what property research analysts do actually, just that nobody really covers tuan sing.
Reply
#22
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?

(10-06-2013, 10:29 PM)Ray168 Wrote: Below statement is extrated from AR2012.(pg 116)
It stated clearly that Revenue is recognise base on progressive work done.


Revenue from sales of development properties
Revenue from completed property development is recognised when the risks and rewards of ownership have been transferred to the purchaser either through the transfer of legal title or equitable interest in a property.

Revenue recognition on partly completed properties held for sale is based on the following methods:

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under progressive payment scheme, profit is recognised upon the signing of sales contracts and payment of the first instalment which corresponds to 20% of the estimated profit attributable to the actual contracts signed.
Subsequent recognition of profit is based on the percentage of completion method as construction progresses. The percentage of work completed is measured based on the construction and related costs incurred to date as a proportion of the estimated total construction and related costs;

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under deferred payment scheme and overseas development properties, profit is recognised only upon the transfer of significant risks and rewards of ownership of the properties to the purchasers.




(10-06-2013, 08:25 PM)l0nEr Wrote:
(21-05-2013, 09:18 PM)Behappyalways Wrote: One deep lesson I learnt from buying property counters is that even though they might sell their projects very well, the revenues from the sales will take some time to come on stream.

Take Sing Holdings for example. The Laurels was 70% sold (if I remember correctly) when it was launched in Feb/Mar 2010....The tender for construction was awarded in Apr 2010 to Lian Beng and the contribution to earning was not really visible till 2012...A project sells well but unless you really intend to hold till its TOP which might be 2-3 years time I do not advise investing in it because during this mean time(from launch to TOP), the stock market might turn negative while the initial contribution to bottom line is negligible. (Sing Holdings fell to as low as 24 cents in 2011 when the stock market tanked even though The Laurels was selling pretty well)

Although I admit that the buzz(from the good sales during launch) might improve the share price.

My own personal view is that it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly. I believed some of the guys holding Sing Holdings as long as me might agree with what I said.

not vested and not a call to buy or sell Tuan Sing.....

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me


http://www.ura.gov.sg/lad/HBG/progressPayments.htm

hi hi. you talking about an issue with accounting recognition?
I think Ho Bee recognises by stage of completion, so the revenue comes in progressively over the years. I believe Tuan Sing should be the case too (forgot my accounting policy, please refer to INT FRS 115, but i think for HDB and China properties recognise on delivery)

On theory, the market should react on the point of sales, because the cash flow is kinda locked in, and should be reflected in the stock price. Most China properties stocks react accordingly when their monthly contracted sales (i.e. when the sales contracted is signed but coudl be before construction) are announced. In Singapore and stocks like Tuan Sing, I believe its probably just lack of liquidity and information that is causing the market to react slowly?

As you said, if Tuan Sing recognises only on delivery, this could be opportunity to monitor the project sale price and delivery date, use it to forecast delivery and hence revenue recognition, and therefore predict the earnings. This is basically what property research analysts do actually, just that nobody really covers tuan sing.
Reply
#22
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?

(10-06-2013, 10:29 PM)Ray168 Wrote: Below statement is extrated from AR2012.(pg 116)
It stated clearly that Revenue is recognise base on progressive work done.


Revenue from sales of development properties
Revenue from completed property development is recognised when the risks and rewards of ownership have been transferred to the purchaser either through the transfer of legal title or equitable interest in a property.

Revenue recognition on partly completed properties held for sale is based on the following methods:

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under progressive payment scheme, profit is recognised upon the signing of sales contracts and payment of the first instalment which corresponds to 20% of the estimated profit attributable to the actual contracts signed.
Subsequent recognition of profit is based on the percentage of completion method as construction progresses. The percentage of work completed is measured based on the construction and related costs incurred to date as a proportion of the estimated total construction and related costs;

For sale of partly completed
development properties in Singapore under deferred payment scheme and overseas development properties, profit is recognised only upon the transfer of significant risks and rewards of ownership of the properties to the purchasers.




(10-06-2013, 08:25 PM)l0nEr Wrote:
(21-05-2013, 09:18 PM)Behappyalways Wrote: One deep lesson I learnt from buying property counters is that even though they might sell their projects very well, the revenues from the sales will take some time to come on stream.

Take Sing Holdings for example. The Laurels was 70% sold (if I remember correctly) when it was launched in Feb/Mar 2010....The tender for construction was awarded in Apr 2010 to Lian Beng and the contribution to earning was not really visible till 2012...A project sells well but unless you really intend to hold till its TOP which might be 2-3 years time I do not advise investing in it because during this mean time(from launch to TOP), the stock market might turn negative while the initial contribution to bottom line is negligible. (Sing Holdings fell to as low as 24 cents in 2011 when the stock market tanked even though The Laurels was selling pretty well)

Although I admit that the buzz(from the good sales during launch) might improve the share price.

My own personal view is that it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly. I believed some of the guys holding Sing Holdings as long as me might agree with what I said.

not vested and not a call to buy or sell Tuan Sing.....

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me


http://www.ura.gov.sg/lad/HBG/progressPayments.htm

hi hi. you talking about an issue with accounting recognition?
I think Ho Bee recognises by stage of completion, so the revenue comes in progressively over the years. I believe Tuan Sing should be the case too (forgot my accounting policy, please refer to INT FRS 115, but i think for HDB and China properties recognise on delivery)

On theory, the market should react on the point of sales, because the cash flow is kinda locked in, and should be reflected in the stock price. Most China properties stocks react accordingly when their monthly contracted sales (i.e. when the sales contracted is signed but coudl be before construction) are announced. In Singapore and stocks like Tuan Sing, I believe its probably just lack of liquidity and information that is causing the market to react slowly?

As you said, if Tuan Sing recognises only on delivery, this could be opportunity to monitor the project sale price and delivery date, use it to forecast delivery and hence revenue recognition, and therefore predict the earnings. This is basically what property research analysts do actually, just that nobody really covers tuan sing.
Reply
#23
Yes, the Mr Market usually reacts positively when the expected revenue coming on board. But, it may be too late for retail investor as the price might has go up substaintially.

I would rather look at the current NAV and RNAV (Revise NAV) of the company and determine if the there is Margin of Safety for entry.



Quote:RE: Tuan Sing Holdings
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?
Reply
#23
Yes, the Mr Market usually reacts positively when the expected revenue coming on board. But, it may be too late for retail investor as the price might has go up substaintially.

I would rather look at the current NAV and RNAV (Revise NAV) of the company and determine if the there is Margin of Safety for entry.



Quote:RE: Tuan Sing Holdings
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?
Reply
#24
(11-06-2013, 10:05 AM)Ray168 Wrote: Yes, the Mr Market usually reacts positively when the expected revenue coming on board. But, it may be too late for retail investor as the price might has go up substaintially.

I would rather look at the current NAV and RNAV (Revise NAV) of the company and determine if the there is Margin of Safety for entry.



Quote:RE: Tuan Sing Holdings
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?

I guess it also depends on whether one is aiming to be like Philip A Fisher's sensational buys:

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=XclT...22&f=false
Reply
#24
(11-06-2013, 10:05 AM)Ray168 Wrote: Yes, the Mr Market usually reacts positively when the expected revenue coming on board. But, it may be too late for retail investor as the price might has go up substaintially.

I would rather look at the current NAV and RNAV (Revise NAV) of the company and determine if the there is Margin of Safety for entry.



Quote:RE: Tuan Sing Holdings
Hi Ray,

Thank you for the valueable inputs.

Behappyalways suggested that "it is safer to invest near its TOP OR when bulk of revenue comes on stream hence improving the bottom line while cashflow improves significantly".

Wouldn't investing becomes more tedious through timing the entry rather than gauging through basis of margin of safety?

I guess it also depends on whether one is aiming to be like Philip A Fisher's sensational buys:

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=XclT...22&f=false
Reply
#25
Lets not forget that Tuan Sing also has exposure in Australia hospitality sector via their investment in a 50%-owned jointly-controlled company,Grand Hotel Group. Grand Hotel Group owns two luxury 5-star hotels managed by Hyatt International, Grand Hyatt Melbourne and Hyatt Regency Perth.

This will provide Tuan Sing with a steady recurring income stream over the next 3 years while robinson towers is in the process of being redeveloped.

The successful completion of Tuan Sing 3 development project is timed to coincide with the completion of Robinson Towers in 2016.
Reply
#25
Lets not forget that Tuan Sing also has exposure in Australia hospitality sector via their investment in a 50%-owned jointly-controlled company,Grand Hotel Group. Grand Hotel Group owns two luxury 5-star hotels managed by Hyatt International, Grand Hyatt Melbourne and Hyatt Regency Perth.

This will provide Tuan Sing with a steady recurring income stream over the next 3 years while robinson towers is in the process of being redeveloped.

The successful completion of Tuan Sing 3 development project is timed to coincide with the completion of Robinson Towers in 2016.
Reply
#26
[Image: images%255B2%255D.jpg]


(11-06-2013, 01:10 PM)propertyinvestor Wrote: Lets not forget that Tuan Sing also has exposure in Australia hospitality sector via their investment in a 50%-owned jointly-controlled company,Grand Hotel Group. Grand Hotel Group owns two luxury 5-star hotels managed by Hyatt International, Grand Hyatt Melbourne and Hyatt Regency Perth.

This will provide Tuan Sing with a steady recurring income stream over the next 3 years while robinson towers is in the process of being redeveloped.

The successful completion of Tuan Sing 3 development project is timed to coincide with the completion of Robinson Towers in 2016.
Reply
#26
[Image: images%255B2%255D.jpg]


(11-06-2013, 01:10 PM)propertyinvestor Wrote: Lets not forget that Tuan Sing also has exposure in Australia hospitality sector via their investment in a 50%-owned jointly-controlled company,Grand Hotel Group. Grand Hotel Group owns two luxury 5-star hotels managed by Hyatt International, Grand Hyatt Melbourne and Hyatt Regency Perth.

This will provide Tuan Sing with a steady recurring income stream over the next 3 years while robinson towers is in the process of being redeveloped.

The successful completion of Tuan Sing 3 development project is timed to coincide with the completion of Robinson Towers in 2016.
Reply
#27
Dirt cheap now
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#27
Dirt cheap now
Reply
#28
Guys,

Would just like to know in what kind of scenario would TS shares rise if the liquidity is so low for this counter?

thks in advance.
Reply
#28
Guys,

Would just like to know in what kind of scenario would TS shares rise if the liquidity is so low for this counter?

thks in advance.
Reply
#29
(05-07-2013, 12:33 AM)cheeseburger Wrote: Guys,

Would just like to know in what kind of scenario would TS shares rise if the liquidity is so low for this counter?

thks in advance.

Simple answer: When market recognises the value of the business (example earnings prospects)

<not vested>
Reply
#29
(05-07-2013, 12:33 AM)cheeseburger Wrote: Guys,

Would just like to know in what kind of scenario would TS shares rise if the liquidity is so low for this counter?

thks in advance.

Simple answer: When market recognises the value of the business (example earnings prospects)

<not vested>
Reply
#30
Hi, not sure if this is the correct forum to share this. From my experience, shares like Tuan Sing tend to rise based on "play" and of course stock specific news. In general illiquid small caps do not tend to rally when blue chips are cheap.
Reply
#30
Hi, not sure if this is the correct forum to share this. From my experience, shares like Tuan Sing tend to rise based on "play" and of course stock specific news. In general illiquid small caps do not tend to rally when blue chips are cheap.
Reply


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