"value investing is a positive sum game" in the long run - really??

[promptpost]

"" In the Stock Market, basically there are 2 types of players: ........

A) Before the investors invest, they look at the fundamentals of the company. (Can be Growth Investors or Value Investors).

B) The traders look at the technical. .....""


Is there such group who uses both Technical and Fundamental?

[ikur1]

"" In the Stock Market, basically there are 2 types of players: ........

A) Before the investors invest, they look at the fundamentals of the company. (Can be Growth Investors or Value Investors).

B) The traders look at the technical. .....""


Is there such group who uses both Technical and Fundamental?

yes, i know long term fundemantalist value investor who refines his entry/exit with technicals, but very basic stuff
eg: fast ma higher that slow ma and price touch back ma to enter

and also somebody else who would exit when the ma cross back and buy back in when ma in favour again, though he knows the intrinsic value all along

but i never know a technicalist who uses fundamentals
i guess they r too focused on price http://www.valuebuddies.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[CityFarmer]

"" In the Stock Market, basically there are 2 types of players: ........

A) Before the investors invest, they look at the fundamentals of the company. (Can be Growth Investors or Value Investors).

B) The traders look at the technical. .....""


Is there such group who uses both Technical and Fundamental?

yes, i know long term fundemantalist value investor who refines his entry/exit with technicals, but very basic stuff
eg: fast ma higher that slow ma and price touch back ma to enter

and also somebody else who would exit when the ma cross back and buy back in when ma in favour again, though he knows the intrinsic value all along

but i never know a technicalist who uses fundamentals
i guess they r too focused on price http://www.valuebuddies.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

There is a fundamental differences between technical and value investors. Technical is works base on price movement, while value investors don't bother on price, at least most of the time.

IMO, there is conflicting statement saying a person is a technical investor cum value investor

[donmihaihai]

Labeling oneself as value investor doesn't mean anything. It is more likely that the more one throw out that he or she is a value investor the less likely he or she is one.

Well I seldom hear great investors of out time keep saying that he is one.

[KopiKat]

There is a fundamental differences between technical and value investors. Technical is works base on price movement, while value investors don't bother on price, at least most of the time.

From Chapter 1, pg 10 of the said book,

Investors make buy and sell decisions on the basis of the current prices of securities compared with the perceived values of those securities.

Speculators, by contrast, buy and sell securities based on whether they believe those securities will next rise or fall in price. Their judgment regarding future price movements is based, not on fundamentals, but on a prediction of the behavior of others.

[Retired@52]

In the Stock Market, basically there are 2 types of players:

A) The Investors.
B) The Traders, sometime also known as Speculators or Punters or Gamblers.

A) The investors invest with the companies. The companies provide products or services to their customers and make money from them. When they make money, they distribute part of the profit to shareholders as dividends and retain part of it to grow the company resulting in the increase of the share prices. The companies make money for their shareholders so it is a "Positive-Sum-Game”.

B) The traders trade between themselves so one group makes money at the expense of the other group. It is a “Zero-Sum-Game”.

A) Before the investors invest, they look at the fundamentals of the company. (Can be Growth Investors or Value Investors).

B) The traders look at the technical.

Retired @ 52 in 2007
Dip. Inv.

I thought this is an enlightening statement. Retired since 2007 provide me more inspirations.On the whole, investor+trader, is it still zero-sum is the question.

Cory

Basically there are 3 types of people in my golf groups:

1) True Blue Investor (Not involving in daily, weekly or monthly trade) may sell a stock that has risen to become over price and buy one that seems under-price to its value and keep it for a long time for dividends & capital gain.

2) True Blue Traders (Trade almost every day) do not hold any stocks for more than a month. For this group Take Profit & Cut Lost is part & pascel of the game.

3) Investor cum Trader (Allocate about 80 to 90% of the fund in investing and use the balance 10 to 20% of the fund to trade).

All these golf friends of mine have been retired for the last 5 to 15 years.

The investors look at the fundamental, namely:

A) Profit Margin, after Tax Profit/lost, ROE, Dividend history, Price history (Previous High & Low, % from high/low, Yield, NAV, PE, Asset, Liabilities, Net Worth, Cash at hand.

B) Find out from people who know about that individual company’s management, moral & etc

C) Compare its rating with the companies of the similar industry

D) Is it a growing or dying industry?

E) Look out for share buy back

F) When the price of the your shares gone down, invest more ($ Cost Averaging) when it go further down, stay invested

G) When people are very greedy be fearful. When people are fearful be hungry.

H) Do not like to cut lost but like to make huge profit

I) Invest during the trough

The Traders look at the technical, (the charts) namely:

Bollinger Bands, Moving Average, Moving Ave- Exp, Moving Ave – Wt, KeLive, Parabolic SAR, Price Channel, ADX, Average True Range, Momentum, Money Flow Index, Price ROC, OBV, RSI, ChaiKin Volatility, MACD, Stochastic, Volume, Williams %R, Aroon, Tric, Chaikin Oscillator, Accumulate Direction.

It took me many years to study the above especially the technical but now I’ve returned most of them to my lecturers.

[mrEngineer]

To the old birds in the forum: do you see a reminiscence where more new members are interested in investing and ask fundamental questions on investing? hehe

[Musicwhiz]

To the old birds in the forum: do you see a reminiscence where more new members are interested in investing and ask fundamental questions on investing? hehe

Yeah, it does seem to be the case, actually! The buzz words seems to be "dividend investing" right now.

[gutman]

There is a fundamental differences between technical and value investors. Technical is works base on price movement, while value investors don't bother on price, at least most of the time.

From Chapter 1, pg 10 of the said book,

Investors make buy and sell decisions on the basis of the current prices of securities compared with the perceived values of those securities.

Speculators, by contrast, buy and sell securities based on whether they believe those securities will next rise or fall in price. Their judgment regarding future price movements is based, not on fundamentals, but on a prediction of the behavior of others.

Thus, even though I like to think of myself as an investor, I am really a speculator, at least half the time......

[CityFarmer]

To the old birds in the forum: do you see a reminiscence where more new members are interested in investing and ask fundamental questions on investing? hehe

The spirit and tradition of 传承 [chuán chéng]

Translation：
to pass on (knowledge/experience to future generations)