Singapore Press Holdings (SPH)

[wsreader]

To summarise, if the ask price on monday does not fall more than 7 cents (being the dividend) plus 2 way transaction costs (being the cost incurred for sold and buy back), sph traders will kick themselves for losing faith in buy and hold.

If it does, then the 'sell-before-xd' approach is applicable for sph, and KopiKat deserves a cup of kopi and a kit kat from his followers.

The price actions on monday will be the judge and I will be watching closely.

[violinist]

Don't put too much confidence into SPH, this is a long term doom counter. Dividends may be good in the short term outlook, but long term it is slowly dying off. Better get rid of it as soon as possible. SELL!

[VestedInterest]

Some of you might have noticed that an SPH subsidiary is the main organiser (together with Audio House) of this weekend's electronics' fair at Suntec City. SPH is now a part property and retail play. It is no longer a pure media company. I hope that they will one day merge with Mediacorp to become a truly multimedia company and perhaps develop a partnership with one of the telco's.
BTW, Today (the newspaper) has stopped distributing their free papers to private homes in some precincts. I suspect that this may impact on advertising revenues for them. Could this be good for SPH since this is the biggest competitor for SPH? Really hope SPH doesn't go the way of Yellow Pages. But it must move fast to reinvent itself. Some of the things that will become obsolete in the future- CD's, newspapers, street directories, desktops, parking coupons, Mp3 players, the land line, the manual car, conventional wars, etc.

[CityFarmer]

Some of you might have noticed that an SPH subsidiary is the main organiser (together with Audio House) of this weekend's electronics' fair at Suntec City. SPH is now a part property and retail play. It is no longer a pure media company. I hope that they will one day merge with Mediacorp to become a truly multimedia company and perhaps develop a partnership with one of the telco's.
BTW, Today (the newspaper) has stopped distributing their free papers to private homes in some precincts. I suspect that this may impact on advertising revenues for them. Could this be good for SPH since this is the biggest competitor for SPH? Really hope SPH doesn't go the way of Yellow Pages. But it must move fast to reinvent itself. Some of the things that will become obsolete in the future- CD's, newspapers, street directories, desktops, parking coupons, Mp3 players, the land line, the manual car, conventional wars, etc.

SPH went into Meetings, Incentives, Conventions & Exhibitions (MICE) biz with its two key subsidiaries, Sphere Exhibits and BizLink Exhibition Services since 2008. It slowly becoming a significant revenue contributor lately.

I capture a paragraph from SPH AR 2011. TODAY is not a competitor of SPH, but a partner of SPH

"SPH has a 20 per cent stake in MediaCorp TV Holdings Pte
Ltd, which operates free-to-air channels 5, 8, and Channel
U, and a 40 per cent stake in MediaCorp Press Ltd,
which publishes the free newspaper, Today."

[Temperament]

To summarise, if the ask price on monday does not fall more than 7 cents (being the dividend) plus 2 way transaction costs (being the cost incurred for sold and buy back), sph traders will kick themselves for losing faith in buy and hold.

If it does, then the 'sell-before-xd' approach is applicable for sph, and KopiKat deserves a cup of kopi and a kit kat from his followers.

The price actions on monday will be the judge and I will be watching closely.

SPH will definitely trade above $3.9 if the bull market continue its run. It's a matter of time. IMO. i did not manage to sell any at the price i want this time.

[KopiKat]

Some of you might have noticed that an SPH subsidiary is the main organiser (together with Audio House) of this weekend's electronics' fair at Suntec City. SPH is now a part property and retail play. It is no longer a pure media company. I hope that they will one day merge with Mediacorp to become a truly multimedia company and perhaps develop a partnership with one of the telco's.
BTW, Today (the newspaper) has stopped distributing their free papers to private homes in some precincts. I suspect that this may impact on advertising revenues for them. Could this be good for SPH since this is the biggest competitor for SPH? Really hope SPH doesn't go the way of Yellow Pages. But it must move fast to reinvent itself. Some of the things that will become obsolete in the future- CD's, newspapers, street directories, desktops, parking coupons, Mp3 players, the land line, the manual car, conventional wars, etc.

SPH went into Meetings, Incentives, Conventions & Exhibitions (MICE) biz with its two key subsidiaries, Sphere Exhibits and BizLink Exhibition Services since 2008. It slowly becoming a significant revenue contributor lately.

I capture a paragraph from SPH AR 2011. TODAY is not a competitor of SPH, but a partner of SPH

"SPH has a 20 per cent stake in MediaCorp TV Holdings Pte
Ltd, which operates free-to-air channels 5, 8, and Channel
U, and a 40 per cent stake in MediaCorp Press Ltd,
which publishes the free newspaper, Today."

Just to add, SPH also holds a 13.68% stake in M1 and a 0.75% stake in Starhub. But, these are part of their Investments and I doubt they have any plan soon to develop any partnership with any TELCOs.

After all these years of being an SPH shareholder, I have already given up hope that they can ever do a 100% merger with MediaCorps to become a Media Powerhouse, perhaps something like NewsCorp. I think the internal politics and bad blood between these 2 organisation would make it impossible for that to happen in my lifetime. The only possibility would be a forced marriage by govt intervention (like the smaller merger of MediaWorks + TODAY) but I also doubt that'll happen as such a Media Powerhouse may become too huge a monster to be controllable by the govt...

Don't put too much confidence into SPH, this is a long term doom counter. Dividends may be good in the short term outlook, but long term it is slowly dying off. Better get rid of it as soon as possible. SELL!

IMO, the perfect example of managing a 'Dying Cash Cow' would be Berkshire Hathaway. See how they made use of the Cash Flow to divest into other new Cash Cow biz + at the same time, managing the death of the 'dying' Garment Cash Cow biz with minimal CAPEX till they finally let it die...

I definitely don't imagine SPH is anywhere close to Berkshire but at least, the Cash Flow is being invested into the Malls biz for an alternate stream of income. Perhaps one day when they finally have better folks running the show, they may get closer to Berkshire.. Hee..

To summarise, if the ask price on monday does not fall more than 7 cents (being the dividend) plus 2 way transaction costs (being the cost incurred for sold and buy back), sph traders will kick themselves for losing faith in buy and hold.

If it does, then the 'sell-before-xd' approach is applicable for sph, and KopiKat deserves a cup of kopi and a kit kat from his followers.

The price actions on monday will be the judge and I will be watching closely.

When I started out this 'fun' activity on Page 10 Post #91, it was meant to share with other 'buy-and-hold-forever' type of shareholders what I'd been doing with my SPH shares over the years. I certainly hope I DO NOT have any 'followers' in this forum. At best, there may be fellow 'sufferers' who may develop their own ideas on how it's possible to squeeze more profits out of their SPH shares.

If there are indeed any 'followers', please kindly do stop following me!

I have also listed the conditions I'd set for myself. I don't for any moment think it's a 100% sure thing, although it'd worked for me most of the time.

Although I'd be watching the xd price on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday?), it's more for tweaking my conditions for future application. Baring any new development (eg. SPH hitting a Gold Mine while digging their Fernvale site), I have set myself a 6 mths target to slowly buy back more SPH shares at a lower price. Ya, no hurry for me, collect back at my leisure - even buy back at a higher price if their valuations go up cos' of new development.

---

i am selling bit by bit @ any price $3.97 and above. Never mind, i make less. Can always buy back ma, before Christmas. NO? i sold 1 batch @ 3.89 sometimes ago. Who knew then Market heads North so fast instead of South.

SPH will definitely trade above $3.9 if the bull market continue its run. It's a matter of time. IMO. i did not manage to sell any at the price i want this time.

You upped your target price? It did hit $3.97 for a few days and even closed at $3.98 for one of the day.

It closed at $3.93 on Friday, last day of cd. The theoretical xd price would be $3.86 or $3.91 (if we use the recent peak closing price instead).

Although I doubt it'll trade above $3.90, I wish you luck!

[Temperament]

Some of you might have noticed that an SPH subsidiary is the main organiser (together with Audio House) of this weekend's electronics' fair at Suntec City. SPH is now a part property and retail play. It is no longer a pure media company. I hope that they will one day merge with Mediacorp to become a truly multimedia company and perhaps develop a partnership with one of the telco's.
BTW, Today (the newspaper) has stopped distributing their free papers to private homes in some precincts. I suspect that this may impact on advertising revenues for them. Could this be good for SPH since this is the biggest competitor for SPH? Really hope SPH doesn't go the way of Yellow Pages. But it must move fast to reinvent itself. Some of the things that will become obsolete in the future- CD's, newspapers, street directories, desktops, parking coupons, Mp3 players, the land line, the manual car, conventional wars, etc.

SPH went into Meetings, Incentives, Conventions & Exhibitions (MICE) biz with its two key subsidiaries, Sphere Exhibits and BizLink Exhibition Services since 2008. It slowly becoming a significant revenue contributor lately.

I capture a paragraph from SPH AR 2011. TODAY is not a competitor of SPH, but a partner of SPH

"SPH has a 20 per cent stake in MediaCorp TV Holdings Pte
Ltd, which operates free-to-air channels 5, 8, and Channel
U, and a 40 per cent stake in MediaCorp Press Ltd,
which publishes the free newspaper, Today."

Just to add, SPH also holds a 13.68% stake in M1 and a 0.75% stake in Starhub. But, these are part of their Investments and I doubt they have any plan soon to develop any partnership with any TELCOs.

After all these years of being an SPH shareholder, I have already given up hope that they can ever do a 100% merger with MediaCorps to become a Media Powerhouse, perhaps something like NewsCorp. I think the internal politics and bad blood between these 2 organisation would make it impossible for that to happen in my lifetime. The only possibility would be a forced marriage by govt intervention (like the smaller merger of MediaWorks + TODAY) but I also doubt that'll happen as such a Media Powerhouse may become too huge a monster to be controllable by the govt...

Don't put too much confidence into SPH, this is a long term doom counter. Dividends may be good in the short term outlook, but long term it is slowly dying off. Better get rid of it as soon as possible. SELL!

IMO, the perfect example of managing a 'Dying Cash Cow' would be Berkshire Hathaway. See how they made use of the Cash Flow to divest into other new Cash Cow biz + at the same time, managing the death of the 'dying' Garment Cash Cow biz with minimal CAPEX till they finally let it die...

I definitely don't imagine SPH is anywhere close to Berkshire but at least, the Cash Flow is being invested into the Malls biz for an alternate stream of income. Perhaps one day when they finally have better folks running the show, they may get closer to Berkshire.. Hee..

To summarise, if the ask price on monday does not fall more than 7 cents (being the dividend) plus 2 way transaction costs (being the cost incurred for sold and buy back), sph traders will kick themselves for losing faith in buy and hold.

If it does, then the 'sell-before-xd' approach is applicable for sph, and KopiKat deserves a cup of kopi and a kit kat from his followers.

The price actions on monday will be the judge and I will be watching closely.

When I started out this 'fun' activity on Page 10 Post #91, it was meant to share with other 'buy-and-hold-forever' type of shareholders what I'd been doing with my SPH shares over the years. I certainly hope I DO NOT have any 'followers' in this forum. At best, there may be fellow 'sufferers' who may develop their own ideas on how it's possible to squeeze more profits out of their SPH shares.

If there are indeed any 'followers', please kindly do stop following me!

I have also listed the conditions I'd set for myself. I don't for any moment think it's a 100% sure thing, although it'd worked for me most of the time.

Although I'd be watching the xd price on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday?), it's more for tweaking my conditions for future application. Baring any new development (eg. SPH hitting a Gold Mine while digging their Fernvale site), I have set myself a 6 mths target to slowly buy back more SPH shares at a lower price. Ya, no hurry for me, collect back at my leisure - even buy back at a higher price if their valuations go up cos' of new development.

---

i am selling bit by bit @ any price $3.97 and above. Never mind, i make less. Can always buy back ma, before Christmas. NO? i sold 1 batch @ 3.89 sometimes ago. Who knew then Market heads North so fast instead of South.

SPH will definitely trade above $3.9 if the bull market continue its run. It's a matter of time. IMO. i did not manage to sell any at the price i want this time.

You upped your target price? It did hit $3.97 for a few days and even closed at $3.98 for one of the day.

It closed at $3.93 on Friday, last day of cd. The theoretical xd price would be $3.86 or $3.91 (if we use the recent peak closing price instead).

Although I doubt it'll trade above $3.90, I wish you luck!

Er...........,something like that. But i doubt that if i que at 3.98 i will get to sell some. i think almost all the $3.98 que were executed after market 5.00 pm closed. i que at $3.99. IMO, bearing any unforeseen circumstances, SPH should trend higher than $3.9 later, because of current market's sentiment.
Caveat Emptor!

[KopiKat]

Er...........,something like that. But i doubt that if i que at 3.98 i will get to sell some. i think almost all the $3.98 que were executed after market 5.00 pm closed. i que at $3.99.

Are you familiar with the pre-open / pre-close matching? You can sometimes 'benefit' by a couple of bids if you were to watch that 5 mins closely.

For example, on 2-May (the day SPH closed @ $3.98), let's say you have already decided to sell SPH @ $3.98. Just before 5pm, it was still at $3.96/7 and looking at the sell Q, it looked unlikely that you'd have been able to sell @ $3.98.

But, during the 5pm - 5:05pm matching period, if you'd been watching the 'live' prices, you'd have seen the Buy/Sell Q holding well @ $3.98/8.

What I'd do (assuming I have already decided to die-die must sell SPH) would be to "Jump-Q" by placing a sell order @ $3.96 (the lower the sell price, the more you can jump ahead of the Q). The risk is that the buy/sell Qs are dynamic, it may either go up or down (so, better not be too aggressive and set a worst case sell price you are comfortable with). If more sellers appear at a lower price, the Q can drop to say, $3.95/5 and get matched at that price (but if you'd Q'd to sell @ $3.96, then yours won't get done). However, on that day, it stayed at $3.98/8 till matching was closed and even if you'd placed a sell order $3.96, you'd still get the $3.98 price!

In your case, you put in a Sell order @ $3.99. Even if it'd hit that price, your order may not get done as you are right at the back of the Q for that price ie. even those who Q'd later than you but at a lower price, will still be ahead of you during matching. Not fair, huh...

The reverse is true for Buy orders ie. the higher your Buy price, the higher priority you get (but may get done at your high price, so set a comfortable price for yourself).

[Temperament]

Er...........,something like that. But i doubt that if i que at 3.98 i will get to sell some. i think almost all the $3.98 que were executed after market 5.00 pm closed. i que at $3.99.

Are you familiar with the pre-open / pre-close matching? You can sometimes 'benefit' by a couple of bids if you were to watch that 5 mins closely.

For example, on 2-May (the day SPH closed @ $3.98), let's say you have already decided to sell SPH @ $3.98. Just before 5pm, it was still at $3.96/7 and looking at the sell Q, it looked unlikely that you'd have been able to sell @ $3.98.

But, during the 5pm - 5:05pm matching period, if you'd been watching the 'live' prices, you'd have seen the Buy/Sell Q holding well @ $3.98/8.

The risk is that the buy/sell Qs are dynamic, it may either go up or down (so, better not be too aggressive and set a worst case sell price you are comfortable with). If more sellers appear at a lower price, the Q can drop to say, $3.95/5 and get matched at that price (but if you'd Q'd to sell @ $3.96, then yours won't get done). However, on that day, it stayed at $3.98/8 till matching was closed and even if you'd placed a sell order $3.96, you'd still get the $3.98 price!

In your case, you put in a Sell order @ $3.99. Even if it'd hit that price, your order may not get done as you are right at the back of the Q for that price ie. even those who Q'd later than you but at a lower price, will still be ahead of you during matching. Not fair, huh...

The reverse is true for Buy orders ie. the higher your Buy price, the higher priority you get (but may get done at your high price, so set a comfortable price for yourself).

Do you mean even i put in an overnight Q @ $3.98 it may not be done because of:-
Quote:-
"during the 5pm - 5:05pm matching period, if you'd been watching the 'live' prices, you'd have seen the Buy/Sell Q holding well @ $3.98/8.

The risk is that the buy/sell Qs are dynamic, it may either go up or down (so, better not be too aggressive and set a worst case sell price you are comfortable with). If more sellers appear at a lower price, the Q can drop to say, $3.95/5 and get matched at that price (but if you'd Q'd to sell @ $3.96, then yours won't get done). However, on that day, it stayed at $3.98/8 till matching was closed and even if you'd placed a sell order $3.96, you'd still get the $3.98 price! "

Unquote:-
IF so, then overnight Q of $3.98 is over ride by after 5 pm trading matching order Q @ lower price. So overnight Q is no match for after 5 PM matching Q lower prices. Am i correct to say that? If i am correct, no wonder sometimes my overnight sell order Q is not done even my selling price match the after market price selling price.

i can understand about overnight selling Q Price matching pre-opening price
Is after 5 pm closing matching selling prices works the same way as pre- opening matching prices? If so is there any advantage of overnight Q?

[KopiKat]

Do you mean even i put in an overnight Q @ $3.98 it may not be done because of:-
Quote:-
"during the 5pm - 5:05pm matching period, if you'd been watching the 'live' prices, you'd have seen the Buy/Sell Q holding well @ $3.98/8.

The risk is that the buy/sell Qs are dynamic, it may either go up or down (so, better not be too aggressive and set a worst case sell price you are comfortable with). If more sellers appear at a lower price, the Q can drop to say, $3.95/5 and get matched at that price (but if you'd Q'd to sell @ $3.96, then yours won't get done). However, on that day, it stayed at $3.98/8 till matching was closed and even if you'd placed a sell order $3.96, you'd still get the $3.98 price! "

Unquote:-
IF so, then overnight Q of $3.98 is over ride by after 5 pm trading matching order Q @ lower price. So overnight Q is no match for after 5 PM matching Q lower prices. Am i correct to say that? If i am correct, no wonder sometimes my overnight sell order Q is not done even my selling price match the after market price selling price.

i can understand about overnight selling Q Price matching pre-opening price
Is after 5 pm closing matching selling prices works the same way as pre- opening matching prices? If so is there any advantage of overnight Q?

Yes, my understanding of how the queue system works is PRICE gives the highest priority followed by TIME

ie. even if you'd been the first person to put in an overnight Q to sell @ $3.98, anyone can still Jump ahead of you in the pre-open or pre-close matching period by putting in a lower sell price.

My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!

BTW, there are other kind of priority issues about overnight Q depending on your brokerage's system and whether you place it online on your own or through your broker. You'll have to check with your broker if this is important to you.