Sino Grandness

Share buybacks from loquat boss appears to be insufficient to stem market inconfidence.

Perhaps the loquat should consider the option of repaying the CB Holders entirely from cash generated from operations or from the recovery of trade receivables. I note trade receivables totaled (close to) RMB900m in 2013 annual report. This is more than sufficient to pay back the bondholders, pay a decent dividend and prove their sales are not inflated and also shut up the short seller. This is the ultimate litmus test.

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the supermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

(27-10-2014, 06:00 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the supermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

because of buying income....to list a product in a store...u need to pay listing fees..promotion fees..barcode fees etc...before u can make a profit....listing fees normally is renew yearly....

The CEO/Chairman has been buying shares off the open market. The most recent was for Friday: 205 lots @ $0.488. It seems the CEO/Chairman actions are only reported one day later, his stake is now 40.4%. Assuming if tmw news result reports he had bought more today and more than 205k lots in light of the price drop after 2.30; I will be fairly convinced that the figures are true and may contemplate.

Not vested or shorted

(27-10-2014, 04:25 PM)budgetier Wrote: It is now almost the end of Oct 14, and some 2011 CBs were redeemed recently. There is no announcement/update on the proposed IPO of Garden Fresh. What exactly is the timeline/s for the IPO?

Misconception that IPO should be completed before 2011 bonds matured on 19 Oct 2014 may have been created by Newman9:
“As previously stated, the Company has not yet filed a Form A1 which needed to happen by now in order to IPO by October.” (page 26 of Newman9’s 4 Sep report)

The target date for IPO is 30 June 2015.

Pg 7 and 8 of 4 July 12 circular in relation to 2012 bond issue states the following:

QIPO: If there is An initial public offering
(i) on an Approved Exchange,
(ii) in which the Bondholders have a right to participate to sell such shares (converted from the Convertible Bonds) in an amount to be determined between the HK Issuer and the Bondholders, and
(iii) in which the Bondholders have a veto right over the choice of IPO underwriters

QIPO Date: The date of the admission to trading of the shares of the HK Issuer on the Approved Exchange pursuant to a QIPO

Target QIPO Date; The later of:
(a) 19 October 2014 or
(b) if the holders of the 2011 Bonds exercise their extension right under the terms of the 2011 Bonds, then the earlier of (i) such extended maturity date, or (ii) 30 June 2015

The target date of 30 June 2015 was stipulated at the outset because Garden Fresh did not expect IPO to be completed in Oct 2014 as a number of documents (such as audited accounts of 2103) would not be available before April 2014.

By the way, QIPO stands for qualifying IPO to disallow stock exchange that lacks standing, and Garden Fresh is HK issuer.

(27-10-2014, 06:25 PM)edwin Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 06:00 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the suopermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

because of buying income....to list a product in a store...u need to pay listing fees..promotion fees..barcode fees etc...before u can make a profit....listing fees normally is renew yearly....

China farmer,

Supermarkets carry thousands of items on their limited shelf space. They are therefore very selective and they would not carry any items just to recieve listing fees, promotional fees etc.

Items that are not selling well for sometime will be taken off the shelves.

The fact that Carrefour and Walmart has been carrying Gardens Fresh for 4 years means that the juice must be selling well.

Again, if Garden Fresh is not popular in China, would Wellcome and the 7-Eleven chain in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice? Note that Shenzhen, where Sino Grandness is haadquartered, is near Hong Kong.

(27-10-2014, 09:43 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 06:25 PM)edwin Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 06:00 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the suopermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

because of buying income....to list a product in a store...u need to pay listing fees..promotion fees..barcode fees etc...before u can make a profit....listing fees normally is renew yearly....

China farmer,

Supermarkets carry thousands of items on their limited shelf space. They are therefore very selective and they would not carry any items just to recieve listing fees, promotional fees etc.

Items that are not selling well for sometime will be taken off the shelves.

The fact that Carrefour and Walmart has been carrying Gardens Fresh for 4 years means that the juice must be selling well.

Again, if Garden Fresh is not popular in China, would Wellcome and the 7-Eleven chain in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice? Note that Shenzhen, where Sino Grandness is haadquartered, is near Hong Kong.

You addressed the wrong person. The person who replied to your question was edwin.

Admin or moderator please do something about this.

(27-10-2014, 06:00 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the supermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

From the press release regarding loquat entry into HK, i read that they secured a distributor(s?) to achieve penetration into Wellcome and 7 11.

You should check with the company if they pay slotting fees to the supermarket distributors and if so how much slotting fee they pay to them in order to have their product placed on their shelves. I do not know if the loquat has paid slotting fees. But if they have paid slotting fees to stay on the shelves then the assumption, that loquat drink sales must be good as supermarket chains have been selling them for years, must be met with skepticism.

In case you do not know about slotting fees, I suggest you try to understand the supermarket business model first.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slotting_fee

Slotting fee

A slotting fee, slotting allowance,[1] pay-to-stay, or fixed trade spending[2] is a fee charged to produce companies or manufacturers by supermarket distributors (retailers) in order to have their product placed on their shelves.[3] The fee varies greatly depending on the product, manufacturer, and market conditions. For a new product, the initial slotting fee may be approximately $25,000 per item in a regional cluster of stores, but may be as high as $250,000 in high-demand markets.[4]

In addition to slotting fees, retailers may also charge promotional, advertising and stocking fees. According to an FTC study, the practice is "widespread" in the supermarket industry.[citation needed] Many grocers earn more profit from agreeing to carry a manufacturer's product than they do from actually selling the product to retail consumers. According to retailers, fees serve to efficiently allocate scarce retail shelf space, help balance the risk of new product failure between manufacturers and retailers, help manufacturers signal private information about potential success of new products, and serve to widen retail distribution for manufacturers by mitigating retail competition.[citation needed] Vendors charge that slotting fees are a move by the grocery industry to profit at their suppliers' expense.[citation needed]

Some companies argue that slotting fees are unethical as they create a barrier to entry for smaller businesses that do not have the cash flow to compete with large companies. The use of slotting fees can, in some instances, lead to abuse by retailers such as in the case where a bakery firm was asked for a six figure fee to carry its items for a specific period with no guarantee their products would be carried in future periods.[5]

The same practice is common on major bookstore chains in the US as well, as far back as the mid-nineties.[6]

In some countries, eg. in Poland slotting fees are illegal.

simpleman Wrote:Supermarkets carry thousands of items on their limited shelf space. They are therefore very selective and they would not carry any items just to recieve listing fees, promotional fees etc.

Items that are not selling well for sometime will be taken off the shelves.

As written in wikipedia, according to an FTC study, the practice of slotting fees is "widespread" in the supermarket industry. Many grocers earn more profit from agreeing to carry a manufacturer's product than they do from actually selling the product to retail consumers. In that respect, items not selling well may still remain on the shelves as long as the slotting fees are paid.

You really need to establish if the loquat had paid slotting fees to the supermarket distributors.

(27-10-2014, 06:00 PM)simpleman Wrote:

(27-10-2014, 05:20 PM)chinafarmer Wrote: As stated in my first post, I am neither long nor short this loquat and my position is still the same as of now.

Chinafarmer

My questions are

(1) In 2011, Careffour and Walmart started selling Garden Fresh juice. If the juice is not selling well, will the two supermarket chains continue to carry the item for 4 years? (The shortseller has sighted the product in the supermarkets recnetly.)

(2) If Garden Fresh is not popular in China, why did Wellcome and 7-Eleven in Hong Kong agree to sell the juice?

Thank you if you can shed light.

Simpleman,

1. Do you have Sino Grandness shares? Or are you related to Investor Relation of Sino Grandness?

If Sino Grandness' profit and sales are a complete sham, for the past 4 years, Sino Grandness has paid for:
1. Numerous advertisement and TV commercials.
2. The building of new plants and capacity expansion.
3. Slotting fees to big carriers like Walmart, Careffour, over 300 distributors, and 200 000 retail points all over China; and now Wellcome and soon to be 7-11.
4. The administration fees of IPO listing in HKSE.
5. The analysts at Frost and Sullivan.
6. Buying back shares during price weakness, and not selling a single share.
7. Buying back 20% of outstanding CB.

All this while while not making profit? Or rather huge losses?

If this is true, I wonder if the big boss of Sino Grandness have anything left for himself?

Honest question. I do not think that there is 0 possibility of fraud. It just seems too elaborate of a scam, if they managed to pull it off.

Vested. High risk section of my portfolio.