Insurance & Costs of having and raising a child

(28-06-2014, 10:58 AM)chialc88 Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?
To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

Hi Martin,
from your understanding, what could had caused the MSL premiums to be higher that B1 or A class private plans?

also, for those poor and needy, whether you feel that their interest is better protected compare to without MSL?

It's too much details to digest, so I thought you could help me out.

Love Compassion





Earth day - save the world everyday.

I have went through the report from MOH website regarding Medishield Life. Generally, the increase is due to the followings:

1. Higher Limits across all areas and increase in annual limit, and unlimited lifetime limit
2. Lower co-insurance
3. Expect higher payout due to the pre-existing cases.
4. More even distribution of premium over lifetime

The report also mentioned the followings:

1. Loading of 30% for people with pre-existing illness for Medishield Life.
2. Government will work with the Pte Insurers with a Standard B1 plan. Medisave withdrawal limits will be set based on the premium of this standard plan.
3. Pte Insurers are allowed to load the premiums for pre-existing cases.

I will expect the loading for some pre-existing will be so high that it will not be worth to take up a pte insurer's plan. Afterall, they are for profit, and not a charity, organization. Maybe they will even set claimable limits for those with pre-existing.

To add on further, I took a look at the premium after government subsidy. For the lower income group, monthly per capita household income below $1100, their increase in premium is pretty insignificant. For those age 66 and above who are under lower income group, they are paying a lower premium for Medishield Life compare with current plan.

(28-06-2014, 10:58 AM)chialc88 Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?
To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

Hi Martin,
from your understanding, what could had caused the MSL premiums to be higher that B1 or A class private plans?

also, for those poor and needy, whether you feel that their interest is better protected compare to without MSL?

It's too much details to digest, so I thought you could help me out.

Love Compassion

Earth day - save the world everyday.

Please refer to page 14 of the Medishield Life report, under "Distributing Premiums More Evenly" and look at that graph.

They are pushing the costs down to the younger generation.

One disadvantage of doing this is that it gives a free ride to those who join the Medishield Life scheme when they are older. ie New citizens and PR.

For private insurers, they do cover the older generation but the premium curve is different. ie Each age band is priced based on the risk of that age band so it will be higher for the older people.

Thanks Martin,

What about the poor and needy Singaporean?

Do you feel that their interest is protected in the new M-Life scheme?

LC


Earth day - save the world everyday.

(28-06-2014, 10:58 AM)chialc88 Wrote: Hi Martin,
from your understanding, what could had caused the MSL premiums to be higher that B1 or A class private plans?

also, for those poor and needy, whether you feel that their interest is better protected compare to without MSL?

It's too much details to digest, so I thought you could help me out.

Love Compassion





Earth day - save the world everyday.

My cursory and simplified take is that coverage now includes those previously not covered. The additional cost burden is now borne by the rest. E.g. Peter is now asked to pay more to help defray elderly Paul's premiums and also new member Patrick who is not previously covered.

I also feel the govt is not doing more. The one-time 850 million in subsidies over five years works out to be just 170 million a year. What happened to the billions paid into Medisave since its inception? How much was actually claimed? Again we don't have the numbers from the govt.

(28-06-2014, 12:25 PM)kichialo Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:58 AM)chialc88 Wrote: Hi Martin,
from your understanding, what could had caused the MSL premiums to be higher that B1 or A class private plans?

also, for those poor and needy, whether you feel that their interest is better protected compare to without MSL?

It's too much details to digest, so I thought you could help me out.

Love Compassion





Earth day - save the world everyday.

My cursory and simplified take is that coverage now includes those previously not covered. The additional cost burden is now borne by the rest. E.g. Peter is now asked to pay more to help defray elderly Paul's premiums and also new member Patrick who is not previously covered.

I also feel the govt is not doing more. The one-time 850 million in subsidies over five years works out to be just 170 million a year. What happened to the billions paid into Medisave since its inception? How much was actually claimed? Again we don't have the numbers from the govt.

Bobby Chin has mentioned that in order to cover those who have pre-existing conditions, everyone will need to chip in. Those with pre-existing conditions will need to pay 30% more in premiums for 10 years, while everyone else will need to pay 3% more.

If a person is healthy, there shouldn't be any additional burden as the premiums are priced based on age group and he or she would need to pay the premiums to cover for his risk.

Just that in this case, there is a huge discount given to the elderly so someone else will need to foot the bill.

(28-06-2014, 12:49 PM)martinlee Wrote: there is a huge discount given to the elderly so someone else will need to foot the bill.

Martin,
I think ok lar, right?
pay for elderly to get insured should make us a better society, so it's a pleasure to help.

:heart：Love Compassion



Earth day - save the world everyday.

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?

It isn't fair to compare the premiums of Medishield Life to the private shield plans. They cover very different things.

Medishield Life covers for B2 and C wards, while the private plans cover B1, A or private hospitals.

To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

From a social equality perspective, this is as near a universal health care coverage as one can get, compared to the previous version of Medishield. They don't even discriminate for pre-existing conditions and super old citizens. Because its open to nearly everyone and funded with the resources of the Singapore govt (and hence taxpayers) I would consider it superior to any offers by private insurers who will raise premiums at the drop of their hat to make their profit margins.

There are some costs to doing this and to avoid dipping entirely into the taxpayer pot they have tried to do some risk sharing with the younger generation. After all everyone gets old and the benefits come back through the cycle.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My reference of private plans is for seniors 70+ :- their premiums are much more than what is offered by Medishield Life. Yes its class A vs B2/C but it is still something that needs to be paid out-of-pocket. Someone who earns 4-5k pm who can easily afford the private shield plans now (ya don't buy the cheng hu plan because the smart people said its more expensive) will come in for a rude shock when they reach older age and find that these now cost multiple times the previous premiums. Eventually these people will return to Medishield Life and taxpayers will have to pick up the slack.

Nothing wrong, if you want to be inclusive from a societal point of view. This is however wrong from fairness to Singapore taxpayers perspective because it allows private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably.

Personally I am happy for these changes and if taxes need to be upped to pay for this I am fine because it is a necessary and good safety net.

(28-06-2014, 01:48 PM)thefarside Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?

It isn't fair to compare the premiums of Medishield Life to the private shield plans. They cover very different things.

Medishield Life covers for B2 and C wards, while the private plans cover B1, A or private hospitals.

To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

From a social equality perspective, this is as near a universal health care coverage as one can get, compared to the previous version of Medishield. They don't even discriminate for pre-existing conditions and super old citizens. Because its open to nearly everyone and funded with the resources of the Singapore govt (and hence taxpayers) I would consider it superior to any offers by private insurers who will raise premiums at the drop of their hat to make their profit margins.

There are some costs to doing this and to avoid dipping entirely into the taxpayer pot they have tried to do some risk sharing with the younger generation. After all everyone gets old and the benefits come back through the cycle.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My reference of private plans is for seniors 70+ :- their premiums are much more than what is offered by Medishield Life. Yes its class A vs B2/C but it is still something that needs to be paid out-of-pocket. Someone who earns 4-5k pm who can easily afford the private shield plans now (ya don't buy the cheng hu plan because the smart people said its more expensive) will come in for a rude shock when they reach older age and find that these now cost multiple times the previous premiums. Eventually these people will return to Medishield Life and taxpayers will have to pick up the slack.

Nothing wrong, if you want to be inclusive from a societal point of view. This is however wrong from fairness to Singapore taxpayers perspective because it allows private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably.

Personally I am happy for these changes and if taxes need to be upped to pay for this I am fine because it is a necessary and good safety net.

What is the best course of action for someone like me??
I am 33 this year..

So I should keep my private plans till middle age and then switch to Medishield Life for optimum coverage vs premiums?

If the govt wants to prevent ".. private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably...", the govt should just ban private plans outright and puts everyone on MediShield Life....

What I foresee from this is that the private insurers will raise premiums using the Medishield life universal coverage as reasons...

(28-06-2014, 02:07 PM)Zelphon Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 01:48 PM)thefarside Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?

It isn't fair to compare the premiums of Medishield Life to the private shield plans. They cover very different things.

Medishield Life covers for B2 and C wards, while the private plans cover B1, A or private hospitals.

To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

From a social equality perspective, this is as near a universal health care coverage as one can get, compared to the previous version of Medishield. They don't even discriminate for pre-existing conditions and super old citizens. Because its open to nearly everyone and funded with the resources of the Singapore govt (and hence taxpayers) I would consider it superior to any offers by private insurers who will raise premiums at the drop of their hat to make their profit margins.

There are some costs to doing this and to avoid dipping entirely into the taxpayer pot they have tried to do some risk sharing with the younger generation. After all everyone gets old and the benefits come back through the cycle.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My reference of private plans is for seniors 70+ :- their premiums are much more than what is offered by Medishield Life. Yes its class A vs B2/C but it is still something that needs to be paid out-of-pocket. Someone who earns 4-5k pm who can easily afford the private shield plans now (ya don't buy the cheng hu plan because the smart people said its more expensive) will come in for a rude shock when they reach older age and find that these now cost multiple times the previous premiums. Eventually these people will return to Medishield Life and taxpayers will have to pick up the slack.

Nothing wrong, if you want to be inclusive from a societal point of view. This is however wrong from fairness to Singapore taxpayers perspective because it allows private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably.

Personally I am happy for these changes and if taxes need to be upped to pay for this I am fine because it is a necessary and good safety net.

What is the best course of action for someone like me??
I am 33 this year..

So I should keep my private plans till middle age and then switch to Medishield Life for optimum coverage vs premiums?

If the govt wants to prevent ".. private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably...", the govt should just ban private plans outright and puts everyone on MediShield Life....

What I foresee from this is that the private insurers will raise premiums using the Medishield life universal coverage as reasons...

Everyone seems to forget that the private plans are integrated with Medishield, hence there is no milking by the private insurers.

There is no way of dropping of the Medishield plan to take up the private plan.

Everyone is in the Medishield pool whether they opt for a private plan or not.

When private insurer X collects $300 in premiums, they will have to pay Medishield their share of the premium.

Thus the private rates will never be lower than the Medishield rates.

The existing rates are lower, but they will have to be increased to take into account the new Medishield premiums.

(28-06-2014, 02:12 PM)martinlee Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 02:07 PM)Zelphon Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 01:48 PM)thefarside Wrote:

(28-06-2014, 10:38 AM)martinlee Wrote: Why do you find it a superior scheme?

It isn't fair to compare the premiums of Medishield Life to the private shield plans. They cover very different things.

Medishield Life covers for B2 and C wards, while the private plans cover B1, A or private hospitals.

To put things into perspective, the new premiums for Medishield Life (for certain age groups) is more than the prevailing premiums for private plans that can cover for B1 or A class.

From a social equality perspective, this is as near a universal health care coverage as one can get, compared to the previous version of Medishield. They don't even discriminate for pre-existing conditions and super old citizens. Because its open to nearly everyone and funded with the resources of the Singapore govt (and hence taxpayers) I would consider it superior to any offers by private insurers who will raise premiums at the drop of their hat to make their profit margins.

There are some costs to doing this and to avoid dipping entirely into the taxpayer pot they have tried to do some risk sharing with the younger generation. After all everyone gets old and the benefits come back through the cycle.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My reference of private plans is for seniors 70+ :- their premiums are much more than what is offered by Medishield Life. Yes its class A vs B2/C but it is still something that needs to be paid out-of-pocket. Someone who earns 4-5k pm who can easily afford the private shield plans now (ya don't buy the cheng hu plan because the smart people said its more expensive) will come in for a rude shock when they reach older age and find that these now cost multiple times the previous premiums. Eventually these people will return to Medishield Life and taxpayers will have to pick up the slack.

Nothing wrong, if you want to be inclusive from a societal point of view. This is however wrong from fairness to Singapore taxpayers perspective because it allows private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably.

Personally I am happy for these changes and if taxes need to be upped to pay for this I am fine because it is a necessary and good safety net.

What is the best course of action for someone like me??
I am 33 this year..

So I should keep my private plans till middle age and then switch to Medishield Life for optimum coverage vs premiums?

If the govt wants to prevent ".. private insurers to milk the profit in the low risk years and then passing it back to the govt when these people get old and too expensive to cover profitably...", the govt should just ban private plans outright and puts everyone on MediShield Life....

What I foresee from this is that the private insurers will raise premiums using the Medishield life universal coverage as reasons...

Everyone seems to forget that the private plans are integrated with Medishield, hence there is no milking by the private insurers.

There is no way of dropping of the Medishield plan to take up the private plan.

Everyone is in the Medishield pool whether they opt for a private plan or not.

When private insurer X collects $300 in premiums, they will have to pay Medishield their share of the premium.

Thus the private rates will never be lower than the Medishield rates.

The existing rates are lower, but they will have to be increased to take into account the new Medishield premiums.

Interesting.. I learnt something new today..

I was always under the impression that Private Shield Plans and MediShield are 2 separate things..

Using an analogy of McDonald's value meal...

So you are saying that MediShield is like the basic value meal and Private Shield is like the Upsize portion???

When I buy private shields.. they have to cough out a chunk of my premium to pay medishield?