Yangzijiang Shipbuilding (Holdings)

(16-02-2014, 08:12 PM)freedom Wrote: Why would people keep closing eyes about realities? The SMEs are getting their fair share of credit from state owned banks. The quote is from the recent half-year report from ICBC page 39.

Out of total corporate lending, 48.5% went to domestic SMEs. At the end of FY2012, it was 51.1. If that's not lending to SMEs, I am not sure what is.

I asked the same question to myself before. Here was the answer found.

First of all, since the "lending to SME" was directed from regulator to all banks few years ago, the "lending" has been increased by leap and bounds by the big four banks. That lead me to doubt the numbers, the same as I doubt the NPLs numbers.

Well, we need numbers to proceed with our discussion. So let's take the numbers from the big four banks as it is (without any adjustment).

We need to take the total number from the four banks, instead of ONLY ICBC. The numbers (base on FY2012) were

Total SME loan (Four Banks) = 6400 Bil RMB
Total Loan (Four Banks) = 25230 Bil RMB
% of SME Loan = 25%

Is the 25% mean SME get sufficient credit support? By definition of regulator in China, SME means companies with assets of less than 10 million yuan or annual sales of less than 30 million yuan. It means SMEs accounted to 70 percent of China's output.

The 25% credit for 75% of output, and moreover the 25% might need some discount. That leaded me to keep my view intact, and continue to live on my realities

Feel free to comment if any mistake on numbers.

I am not sure how you derive the 6.4 trillion RMB, but the 25 trillion does not look the right number to be used as denominator.

Even in my previous quote, the 51.1% was total loan granted by ICBC, which includes personal loans. If we strip out the personal loan, total corporate loans was around 6.33 trillion RMB. Given that lending to SME amounted 4.23 trillion. I would say ICBC alone granted twice the loans to SME than to large enterprises and state-owned enterprises together, or 67% of total loans granted by ICBC.

Maybe you can list how you calculated your 6.4 trillion and 25 trillion, so that I can easily refer and calculate by myself?

(16-02-2014, 10:29 PM)freedom Wrote: I am not sure how you derive the 6.4 trillion RMB, but the 25 trillion does not look the right number to be used as denominator.

Even in my previous quote, the 51.1% was total loan granted by ICBC, which includes personal loans. If we strip out the personal loan, total corporate loans was around 6.33 trillion RMB. Given that lending to SME amounted 4.23 trillion. I would say ICBC alone granted twice the loans to SME than to large enterprises and state-owned enterprises together, or 67% of total loans granted by ICBC.

Maybe you can list how you calculated your 6.4 trillion and 25 trillion, so that I can easily refer and calculate by myself?

Well, may be I am assuming too much. You just need to do the same for other 3 banks i.e. CCB, ABC and BOC, then sum up the numbers.

Let's me put up the detail here. All in RMB

ICBC:
SME Lending : 4231 Bil
Total Lending : 8804 Bil (page 289 of AR 2012)
Remark: We should include personal loan, since it is an indirect way of funding business

Ref: http://www.icbc-ltd.com/ICBCLtd/Investor...20Reports/

BOC:
SME Lending : 822 Bil (page 43 of AR 2012)
Total Lending : 6865 Bil (page 228 of AR 2012)

Ref: http://www.boc.cn/en/investor/ir3/201303...06875.html

CCB:
SME Lending : 822 Bil (page 31 of AR 2012)
Total Lending : 6865 Bil (page 175 of AR 2012)

Ref: http://www.ccb.com/en/newinvestor/upload...939_AR.pdf

ABC:
SME Lending : 600 Bil (page 49 of AR 2012)
Total Lending : 2049 Bil (page 76 of AR 2012)

Ref: http://www.abchina.com/en/about-us/annual-report/

The sum of all are
SME Lending = 6399 BIl, and Total Lending = 25230 Bil.

You might notice that ICBC and ABC has larger shares of SME loan, which is due to their mandates. ICBC is major supplier of funds to manufacturing sector, while ABC is to farmers, township and village enterprises.

Correct me if I am not wrong, the SME in BOC is small enterprises only. CCB's SME is small and micro enterprises only. and ABC's is also small micro enterprises only.

That's not a fair evaluation.

Plus, how much credit can be granted to small and micro enterprises? Most of them are not even a company, without capital or a proper book keeping. Just ask the many coffee shops in Singapore. Though they have contributed some part of the economy, How much credit can they get for their business from the banks? Very little. But they can get personal loan instead of SME loans to sponsor their business.

In China, the vast small and micro enterprise owners do have access to personal loan, but unlikely to get corporate loan as they have no creditability.

(17-02-2014, 09:59 AM)freedom Wrote: Correct me if I am not wrong, the SME in BOC is small enterprises only. CCB's SME is small and micro enterprises only. and ABC's is also small micro enterprises only.

That's not a fair evaluation.

Plus, how much credit can be granted to small and micro enterprises? Most of them are not even a company, without capital or a proper book keeping. Just ask the many coffee shops in Singapore. Though they have contributed some part of the economy, How much credit can they get for their business from the banks? Very little. But they can get personal loan instead of SME loans to sponsor their business.

In China, the vast small and micro enterprise owners do have access to personal loan, but unlikely to get corporate loan as they have no creditability.

I have put up the definition of SME, base on regulator view in previous post. The definition has no lower boundary. so micro included.

Let's bring back the context of our discussion. We are not comparing SME loans among banks, but on the issue of "Do SMEs get sufficient credit support by the big four banks?".

Should we conclude SMEs got unfair lesser support of credit, specifically by the big four banks?

Quote:As at the end of 2012, the Bank’s total amount of loans to domestic small-sized enterprises5 was RMB822.520 billion, representing a growth rate of 10.44% compared with the prior year-end, which was higher than the average growth rate of all loans.

from BOC, they did emphasize that's small-sized enterprises. Apparently, it should be just equivalent to the lending to small and micro enterprises. Still there is not mention of lending to medium enterprises.

from the way state banks are managed and what we can see from the clear indication from ICBC, I would conclude that SMEs are getting their fair share of credits.

(17-02-2014, 10:28 AM)freedom Wrote:

Quote:As at the end of 2012, the Bank’s total amount of loans to domestic small-sized enterprises5 was RMB822.520 billion, representing a growth rate of 10.44% compared with the prior year-end, which was higher than the average growth rate of all loans.

from BOC, they did emphasize that's small-sized enterprises. Apparently, it should be just equivalent to the lending to small and micro enterprises. Still there is not mention of lending to medium enterprises.

from the way state banks are managed and what we can see from the clear indication from ICBC, I would conclude that SMEs are getting their fair share of credits.

I reviewed my posts, and ask myself, have I done enough to put up my points? Well, the answer is I have done so, with the limited time allocated, and with the best effort.

I respect your view.

Bow out.

There is always agreement or disagreement. I respectfully disagree that the SMEs are not getting their fair share of credit from state owned banks.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. We just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Announce...eID=276405

Results is out:

1) Dividend maintain at 5 cents

2) Confirmation of rig orders, but have not receive deposit, hence view contract as non-effective. Well, I accept that.

Qn:

On page 11,

The HTM register a cost of 255707000, the first of such cost incurred. What is this? anyone knows? Default of payment??

(27-02-2014, 09:59 AM)Greenrookie Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Announce...eID=276405

Results is out:

1) Dividend maintain at 5 cents

2) Confirmation of rig orders, but have not receive deposit, hence view contract as non-effective. Well, I accept that.

Qn:

On page 11,

The HTM register a cost of 255707000, the first of such cost incurred. What is this? anyone knows? Default of payment??

Your eye very sharp :

Page 12 :
In 4Q2013, total cost of RMB256 million was incurred for the Group’s Held-to-Maturity Investments, which were due to tax expenses mainly consisting of sale taxes and its related levies on interest income.