Is Now The Right Time To Invest In Property?

(18-12-2013, 10:16 AM)Temperament Wrote: Using migration to realise your asset value(aka HDB flat) is a different "Ball Game" .
So Malaysian PRs who can buy HDB flats have the best of both worlds.
In fact there is rumour in the market that they rent out the whole HDB flats in Singapore and stay in JB. But they still actually working in Singapore.
And many Malaysians after many years are still PRs.
Especially those who have properties and kins in Malaysia.
Frankly, if i am a Malaysian, i will do the same.
In life, it's really very rare to find the best of both worlds.

Many Malaysian PRs are doing it for years. Most of them still remain as PR. I was once in a taxi , this guy told me he converted to Singapore citizen because he knew he need to drive taxi one day, so he got his citizenship and prepared in advance. Another smart FT.

^^^ reason why I support no-dual-citizenship system in Singapore... they have to be vested here and committed... no sitting on fence. Singapore is too small to have people 脚踏两船

(18-12-2013, 09:37 AM)Temperament Wrote:

(18-12-2013, 12:09 AM)pianist Wrote: uncle temperament
what do u mean by "Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned."

i mean if you have follow our Local Politics, you will know the Papys is always so proud to say HDB is an Enhanced Assets for the people.

It may be true in the beginning (1975-2000).
When i bought my 1st 3 rm flat it was only 23-K(i think).
i sold it for 62K only.
i upgrade to HDB Maissionette.
It was only 123-127K.
i paid fully with CPF.
Aka old timers like us called 2 bites of the cheery allowed by Papys.
(This may be the Era of real asset enhancement. Still very affordable for most workers)

After 2 bites of the Cheery, (i decided to take profit) i sold my Maisionette for low 500+K.
i downgraded to the largest resale 4 room i can find built by HDB.
The 4A.
i paid about 289K inclusive of 10K cash value.
This was about 15 years ago.
The current value is about 450-500K.

So do you think my current HDB has increased in value (Asset Enhanced) is true or not?
It's true only if i downgrade to nowhere.
So for HDB as an Enhanced Asset for the people is true only in "Relative Terms".
In Absolute Terms, i don't think so.
And on the condition you sell and buy downgrade.

What about the other way round.
If i still live in my 3 rm flats and sell now at market price of 300K+ and purchase my Current flat 4A @450-500K.
Is this really Asset Enhancement?
What is the future value of my flat?

It's still i have to buy downgrade before i can realise the value in the so call Enhanced asset.
So have my living standard being enhanced by HDB as an asset?
What about yours?
Any other opinion?

u can actually do the IRR calculation based on your experience.

Property always have positive feeedback on people because

1)they hold it long period unlike stocks
2) inflation
3) ROE sounds good due to 4X leverage, not unlike retail foreign exchange trading

Those who use CPF to buy house will realise how much the accumulated interest adds up over time. That is actually the opportunity cost (free calculation service from CPF). Real appreciation of property is actually not that fantastic on a ROA basis, but fair to say risk adjusted return is good.

(18-12-2013, 10:26 AM)valueinvestor Wrote:

(18-12-2013, 10:16 AM)Temperament Wrote: Using migration to realise your asset value(aka HDB flat) is a different "Ball Game" .
So Malaysian PRs who can buy HDB flats have the best of both worlds.
In fact there is rumour in the market that they rent out the whole HDB flats in Singapore and stay in JB. But they still actually working in Singapore.
And many Malaysians after many years are still PRs.
Especially those who have properties and kins in Malaysia.
Frankly, if i am a Malaysian, i will do the same.
In life, it's really very rare to find the best of both worlds.

Many Malaysian PRs are doing it for years. Most of them still remain as PR. I was once in a taxi , this guy told me he converted to Singapore citizen because he knew he need to drive taxi one day, so he got his citizenship and prepared in advance. Another smart FT.

Come to think of it, can Singaporeans do it the other way round.

1)Apply for Malaysia PR and stay in JB

2)Rent out the whole HDB flat in Singapore

3)Still works or has business in Singapore- - here it's a little bit tricky. How to do it yet not breaking the laws.

i think some Singaporeans have been doing it if they don't mind trading their own safety.
i have met quite "well to do" retiree couples who are pioneers in staying in Iskandar but their children are still all in Singapore.
They kind of encouraged us to do like them though they did not say so directly.
Of course, they own a vehicle.
If it's bought in Malaysia, i am not surprised.

So, there we can also play the game of "Best of Both Worlds" if don't mind the daily hazzle of daily commute and sacrifice for safety.

i bought my 1st bto hdb a yr after the stock mkt hit bottom in mar 09. compared to friends in the same age grp, i'm at least 10 yrs later than them to buy my first home.

But no regrets as my home is situated near sembawang shipyard with nearby empty plots of land with plot ratio of 3.5 & walking distance to mrt. from the corridor, one is able to have a view of sungei sembawang river, straits of johor and a mountain range in the distance across the straits. maybe one can call it a case of delayed gratification :-)

My impression is malaysia does not give citizenship away very easily or may be due to red tape delays, I read some blog some people wait 30-40 years still cannot get citizen. PR also quite difficulty

For residency in this region I read phillippines is the most relax their retirement visa age starts as early as 35yo just need to put some money in bank I forgotten how much but not a lot.

(18-12-2013, 01:44 PM)sgd Wrote: My impression is malaysia does not give citizenship away very easily or may be due to red tape delays, I read some blog some people wait 30-40 years still cannot get citizen. PR also quite difficulty

For residency in this region I read phillippines is the most relax their retirement visa age starts as early as 35yo just need to put some money in bank I forgotten how much but not a lot.

They don't grow their GDP through brainless way.

(18-12-2013, 09:37 AM)Temperament Wrote: i mean if you have follow our Local Politics, you will know the Papys is always so proud to say HDB is an Enhanced Assets for the people.

It may be true in the beginning (1975-2000).
When i bought my 1st 3 rm flat it was only 23-K(i think).
i sold it for 62K only.
i upgrade to HDB Maissionette.
It was only 123-127K.
i paid fully with CPF.
Aka old timers like us called 2 bites of the cheery allowed by Papys.
(This may be the Era of real asset enhancement. Still very affordable for most workers)

After 2 bites of the Cheery, (i decided to take profit) i sold my Maisionette for low 500+K.
i downgraded to the largest resale 4 room i can find built by HDB.
The 4A.
i paid about 289K inclusive of 10K cash value.
This was about 15 years ago.
The current value is about 450-500K.

So do you think my current HDB has increased in value (Asset Enhanced) is true or not?
It's true only if i downgrade to nowhere.
So for HDB as an Enhanced Asset for the people is true only in "Relative Terms".
In Absolute Terms, i don't think so.
And on the condition you sell and buy downgrade.

What about the other way round.
If i still live in my 3 rm flats and sell now at market price of 300K+ and purchase my Current flat 4A @450-500K.
Is this really Asset Enhancement?
What is the future value of my flat?

It's still i have to buy downgrade before i can realise the value in the so call Enhanced asset.
So have my living standard being enhanced by HDB as an asset?
What about yours?
Any other opinion?

How about reverse mortgage the HDB? Can any value be extracted this way?

Anyone know if the HDB prices fall, will that affect the monthly payout from reverse mortgage if it is taken when the price is at peak?

It depends on the terms of the agreement but reading from newspaper complaint for reverse mortgage is that monthly payout don't change but they ask you to top up equity when property prices dropped.

DUH...

Hope any new reverse mortgage scheme now has either an insurance portion built in or lower LTV used for the projections.

(18-12-2013, 04:01 PM)specuvestor Wrote: It depends on the terms of the agreement but reading from newspaper complaint for reverse mortgage is that monthly payout don't change but they ask you to top up equity when property prices dropped.

DUH...

Hope any new reverse mortgage scheme now has either an insurance portion built in or lower LTV used for the projections.

Har? I take reverse mortgage coz I have no money, and need money to get by. How do HDB expect me to find money to top up?

Reverse mortage is with bank. Bank only care for their bottom line and shareholders.

HDB only lease buyback but I think with condition you must put money back into cpf life plan.

both are making deal with the devil. if ask me it makes more sense to just rent out the usual way but then again I dunno your financial condition so I can't say.