Wing Tai Holdings

There are more failed case than successful case for minority shareholders. Ask shareholders of Gen Mag. If I am not wrong, you are very familiar with it.

As for the case of K1 Venture, I don't believe that the parties are really interested in privatizing the company, thus a lowball offer. If they get it, it's great for them. If not, they raise the profile of K1 and the share price get a bump and maybe they will do a right issue later or whatever they feel like to increase the capital to be deployed.

As for Eastern Holdings, you bet, the owner will keep trying and trying, til all minority shareholders get squeezed out. In the meantime, there are all kinds of means available for the owners to eliminate dividends/increase capex/increase their pay to annoy minority shareholders. In the end, I doubt whether the minority shareholders will get out better than the first offer given time value of the new offer if there is one.

(17-09-2013, 07:58 AM)freedom Wrote: There are more failed case than successful case for minority shareholders. Ask shareholders of Gen Mag. If I am not wrong, you are very familiar with it.

As for the case of K1 Venture, I don't believe that the parties are really interested in privatizing the company, thus a lowball offer. If they get it, it's great for them. If not, they raise the profile of K1 and the share price get a bump and maybe they will do a right issue later or whatever they feel like to increase the capital to be deployed.

As for Eastern Holdings, you bet, the owner will keep trying and trying, til all minority shareholders get squeezed out. In the meantime, there are all kinds of means available for the owners to eliminate dividends/increase capex/increase their pay to annoy minority shareholders. In the end, I doubt whether the minority shareholders will get out better than the first offer given time value of the new offer if there is one.

Yes. There are more failed cases because most minority chose the easy way out by giving up. Or wait for someone else to do something.

For GenMag, it is kicked by SGX after 3 years of watchlist status. Then it is in a limbo state now. The biggest minority shareholder also not doing anything.
Or worse, waiting for someone else to do something.

For k1, when Green put up money and gather the others shareholders to do the Offer, still not serious enough for you??
Green use own pocket to raise profile of k1? If really so, should give him an award. If they are raising capital, then they would not be pay out 2 cents div. LPPL.

For Eastern, "In the end, I doubt whether the minority shareholders will get out better than the first offer given time value of the new offer if there is one." - Time value of money is very low at 1-2% depo rates. Anyway, the market price is already much better than 18 cts Offer.

just want to say: There are 2 school of thoughts for this.
- Leave it to fate
- I make my own fate. Or at least try.

time value of money is 1-2%? I don't know about you. But I am expecting much more than that, at least 10% given the risk. Don't just think about the inflation or interest rate. think about opportunity cost. otherwise, why just put your money into fix deposit with ease of mind.

As for K1, Green earns more than what they spend(so far, how much has K1 risen from the pre-offer price?). Either outcome, they win. if they privatize successfully, they win by offering a low price. If they fail, they win by raising the profile and share price.

(17-09-2013, 08:30 AM)freedom Wrote: time value of money is 1-2%? I don't know about you. But I am expecting much more than that, at least 10% given the risk. Don't just think about the inflation or interest rate. think about opportunity cost. otherwise, why just put your money into fix deposit with ease of mind.

As for K1, Green earns more than what they spend(so far, how much has K1 risen from the pre-offer price?). Either outcome, they win. if they privatize successfully, they win by offering a low price. If they fail, they win by raising the profile and share price.

I said "Time value of money is very low at 1-2% depo rates"

For k1, maybe you can share how does the substantial shareholders (Green and Keppel) benefit from the higher share price?

(17-09-2013, 08:35 AM)opmi Wrote: I said "Time value of money is very low at 1-2% depo rates"

For k1, maybe you can share how does the substantial shareholders (Green and Keppel) benefit from the higher share price?

so I fail to understand your logic that time value of money is low by given a 1-2% depo rates. I thought in Singapore, it has been years that 1-2% is the depo rates.

You can refer to K1 thread. It has been well discussed about how Green(K1 is almost meaningless to Keppel) could benefit from higher share price.

Look at Global Investments, the higher share price does benefit it greatly to raise capital.

But all are just speculations only. Maybe Green is just nice only, who knows.

(17-09-2013, 08:22 AM)opmi Wrote: just want to say: There are 2 school of thoughts for this.
- Leave it to fate
- I make my own fate. Or at least try.

If I read correctly, 'freedom' would also select the latter choice but the difference is in the approach. Whereas you'd choose to hang around and be something like an activist, 'freedom' is suggesting that the time, effort and money can be better utilised on other stocks. There're no lack of choices out there and all of us have limited time and money.

End of day, it's all about opportunity cost and we'll have to make our own choices eg. to maximise our returns (using limited resources of time and money) or whatever is of our higher priorities eg. shareholder rights, making a difference,.....

If minorities always run juz becoz a low ball offer was made, wouldn't it be encouraging managment to do so? End up buy another company the same happen then run again? I have heard management self justify their offer simply becoz many accepted...

(17-09-2013, 08:49 AM)freedom Wrote:

(17-09-2013, 08:35 AM)opmi Wrote: I said "Time value of money is very low at 1-2% depo rates"

For k1, maybe you can share how does the substantial shareholders (Green and Keppel) benefit from the higher share price?

so I fail to understand your logic that time value of money is low by given a 1-2% depo rates. I thought in Singapore, it has been years that 1-2% is the depo rates.

You can refer to K1 thread. It has been well discussed about how Green(K1 is almost meaningless to Keppel) could benefit from higher share price.

Look at Global Investments, the higher share price does benefit it greatly to raise capital.

But all are just speculations only. Maybe Green is just nice only, who knows.

Just to clarify what i mean, difference in FV and PV is small if the discount rate (opportunity cost) is just 1-2% p.a. Meaning low opportunity cost in waiting.

For k1, OK, But what is your own take on how Green can benefit from higher share price?

Never follow Global Investments.

Anyone who has inner knowledge of the company, yet make an offer for it at low price, is NOT nice.

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(17-09-2013, 08:58 AM)KopiKat Wrote:

(17-09-2013, 08:22 AM)opmi Wrote: just want to say: There are 2 school of thoughts for this.
- Leave it to fate
- I make my own fate. Or at least try.

If I read correctly, 'freedom' would also select the latter choice but the difference is in the approach. Whereas you'd choose to hang around and be something like an activist, 'freedom' is suggesting that the time, effort and money can be better utilised on other stocks. There're no lack of choices out there and all of us have limited time and money.

End of day, it's all about opportunity cost and we'll have to make our own choices eg. to maximise our returns (using limited resources of time and money) or whatever is of our higher priorities eg. shareholder rights, making a difference,.....

I agree, plenty of opportunities out there. But that not many 1-2 baggers around. So need to maximise returns when the option is still open. Incremental return vs incremental effort probably make it worth doing.

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(17-09-2013, 09:26 AM)smallcaps Wrote: If minorities always run juz becoz a low ball offer was made, wouldn't it be encouraging managment to do so? End up buy another company the same happen then run again? I have heard management self justify their offer simply becoz many accepted...

I agree.

This happens more often to value investors. Esp small cap deep value.

(17-09-2013, 09:26 AM)smallcaps Wrote: If minorities always run juz becoz a low ball offer was made, wouldn't it be encouraging managment to do so? End up buy another company the same happen then run again? I have heard management self justify their offer simply becoz many accepted...

maybe let's establish some basic fact first.

If the owner is a decent person and his/her aim is to privatize the company he/she owns, he/she will not give a low ball offer, but a fair deal to minority shareholders. If the owner tries his/her luck to squeeze the minority shareholders, it already speaks loud about the personality of the owner.

What are you waiting for? To succeed in annoying the owner to obtain a higher offer? I wish you the best of luck because you are going to need it. Just imagine whether you as a owner, will give a better offer if you keep getting annoyed.

Who is right who is wrong???

I only know Your $ your call My $ my call.