Value Investing is DEAD

(11-09-2013, 09:27 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 08:59 AM)sgd Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 08:40 AM)felixleong Wrote: contra should be banned
but revenues would be lost

contra or no contra for sgx stocks no diff because singapore bourse are not speculative at all, you need hot speculative market for contra to work before when clob exchange was still around it was a hot market because singapore and malaysian stocks where open to investors in both countries trading and volume was very high.

Also before the lowest price for any share on sgx is half cent or 0.05 now because of another decimal place the lowest price can go to 0.001 means to make money you have to buy a lot to make up for thin trades and with only T+2 for contra trades means it's a huge risk now.

I never contra stocks, but I do speculate so instead of using contra whatever I buy I must be able to pick it up so I reduce my risk and have the luxury of time to wait it out.

T+2 only meh? Wouldn't the broker be able to offset trades?

Official is T+2 some broking houses or your personal broker may allow up to 7 days but is up to their own discretion. Some brokers don't like offsetting trades, my current broker allows 6-7 days before start calling, but doesn't do offsetting for any trades.

Because contra is officially T+2 expiry time people mindset orientate themselves to quickly sell, I see quite often trading profit during market rally for most stocks at most 1-2 cents then it will start to turn. Hard to make money if you follow the time limit.

(11-09-2013, 09:38 AM)specuvestor Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 02:09 AM)DP28 Wrote: Many of the foreign investor, especially the ang mohs I spoke to they find Singapore market too shallow and lack the fundamentals. IMO, I find this very true comparing to rest of the markets such as HKEX, NYSE, ASX. However, this does not mean that our local bourse has got no value in it. Most value requires time and patience to unlock and realize. For example, Fraser and Neave, SC global, Guthrie holding just to name a few of those already happened.

Whether our exchange has been doing justice to good companies who does not move or "dead", I leave that debatable. Our uniquely Singapore bourse have a few unique features that rest of the world does not. Such as Contra trades and the penny play that made operators or syndicate millionaires, and this has never been clamped down and this will continue, if we do not belong to that league of participants and do not wish to be burnt by those top20; It will be best to wait patiently for your counter to be unlock

Value investing is dead? I am Deadly invested in value.

I disagree Singapore lack the fundamentals, that's a ridiculous claim. Singapore and Australia are the more fundamental bourses in Asia, despite pockets of speculative activity. There are much worse pump and dump, syndicate cornering, etc in other bourses but that does not mean Singapore cannot improve. Indeed it should have stricter criterias for S-chip instead of lowering our standard to get the revenue or liquidity.

But I do agree we lack the breadth and depth because of how our economy is structured, with GLCs and MNCs. Which is why SGX is so desperate for new listings. So SGX has to decide between quantity and quality. I choose the latter.

I think fundamental maybe a too strong word. What I meant was in other exchanges there more options and a bigger variety of fundamentally good stocks and they trade at their top volumes in their respective bourses. I am sure Singapore is fundamentally strong as well. Only from an institutional perspective, they do not like GLC companies. Most trade them because they need to structure their portfolio or for creation of mutual fund or ETFs.

If we are able to get rid of this stereotyping, SGX will not need to worry about liquidity or revenue issue. Influx of institutional into value play will create a more vibrant and liquid efficient market. That is where you see retail folks may switch from penny to value if they truly understand returns are dependent on risk they undertake.

I agree with you. We need that Mega IPO listing on SGX.

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(11-09-2013, 11:02 AM)sgd Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 09:27 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 08:59 AM)sgd Wrote:

(11-09-2013, 08:40 AM)felixleong Wrote: contra should be banned
but revenues would be lost

contra or no contra for sgx stocks no diff because singapore bourse are not speculative at all, you need hot speculative market for contra to work before when clob exchange was still around it was a hot market because singapore and malaysian stocks where open to investors in both countries trading and volume was very high.

Also before the lowest price for any share on sgx is half cent or 0.05 now because of another decimal place the lowest price can go to 0.001 means to make money you have to buy a lot to make up for thin trades and with only T+2 for contra trades means it's a huge risk now.

I never contra stocks, but I do speculate so instead of using contra whatever I buy I must be able to pick it up so I reduce my risk and have the luxury of time to wait it out.

T+2 only meh? Wouldn't the broker be able to offset trades?

Official is T+2 some broking houses or your personal broker may allow up to 7 days but is up to their own discretion. Some brokers don't like offsetting trades, my current broker allows 6-7 days before start calling, but doesn't do offsetting for any trades.

Because contra is officially T+2 expiry time people mindset orientate themselves to quickly sell, I see quite often trading profit during market rally for most stocks at most 1-2 cents then it will start to turn. Hard to make money if you follow the time limit.

I think exchange should consider cash up front trading or margin trading to deter speculation. If this can be successfully implemented, the credit risk in the market will be lower and transaction cost maybe to cheaper for consumer folks and comparable to discount broker. That's where the US model will kick in. Win-win situation