PSI is how many ah?

(20-06-2013, 12:18 AM)Bibi Wrote:

(19-06-2013, 11:08 PM)Some-one Wrote: 282 at 11pm

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(19-06-2013, 10:22 PM)Bibi Wrote: Is there really no way to resolve this? I read that billions of $$ are lost in economic activities due to haze. Maybe Spore should use 1 billion $ to help farmers there to properly clear and fertilize the forest instead of them resorting to burning it. Dont give this 1 billion to their govt hor. Set up an entity to help those farmers there.

There's not much help if the farmers in Indonesia do not want to accept it. Besides, both are in different jurisdiction.

The reason why farmers chose to burn is due to cheap costs and effective fertilization of the land. If someone willing to do that for them free, I see no reason why they won't accept.

I think there is always a cost to something. If we help them do it for free, who is paying? The taxpayers from Singapore. Moreover, how do we sustain it since every year they would do so? More importantly, there could be culture differences between the two countries. They may not even want it for free...

(20-06-2013, 12:40 AM)Some-one Wrote:

(20-06-2013, 12:18 AM)Bibi Wrote:

(19-06-2013, 11:08 PM)Some-one Wrote: 282 at 11pm

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(19-06-2013, 10:22 PM)Bibi Wrote: Is there really no way to resolve this? I read that billions of $$ are lost in economic activities due to haze. Maybe Spore should use 1 billion $ to help farmers there to properly clear and fertilize the forest instead of them resorting to burning it. Dont give this 1 billion to their govt hor. Set up an entity to help those farmers there.

There's not much help if the farmers in Indonesia do not want to accept it. Besides, both are in different jurisdiction.

The reason why farmers chose to burn is due to cheap costs and effective fertilization of the land. If someone willing to do that for them free, I see no reason why they won't accept.

I think there is always a cost to something. If we help them do it for free, who is paying? The taxpayers from Singapore. Moreover, how do we sustain it since every year they would do so? More importantly, there could be culture differences between the two countries. They may not even want it for free...

Of course Spore has to pay. This will remain unsolved for centuries unless Spore declared war with them. Its either we suffer in silence and dont complain or take concrete steps. As mention, since billions $ are lost, dont u think its better we use 1 billion $ to help resolve it. They dont burn forest fires every year as far as my memory can remember. Spore have given them humanitarian aid many times and they readily and happily accepted it.

(20-06-2013, 07:22 AM)Bibi Wrote:

(20-06-2013, 12:40 AM)Some-one Wrote:

(20-06-2013, 12:18 AM)Bibi Wrote:

(19-06-2013, 11:08 PM)Some-one Wrote: 282 at 11pm

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(19-06-2013, 10:22 PM)Bibi Wrote: Is there really no way to resolve this? I read that billions of $$ are lost in economic activities due to haze. Maybe Spore should use 1 billion $ to help farmers there to properly clear and fertilize the forest instead of them resorting to burning it. Dont give this 1 billion to their govt hor. Set up an entity to help those farmers there.

There's not much help if the farmers in Indonesia do not want to accept it. Besides, both are in different jurisdiction.

The reason why farmers chose to burn is due to cheap costs and effective fertilization of the land. If someone willing to do that for them free, I see no reason why they won't accept.

I think there is always a cost to something. If we help them do it for free, who is paying? The taxpayers from Singapore. Moreover, how do we sustain it since every year they would do so? More importantly, there could be culture differences between the two countries. They may not even want it for free...

Of course Spore has to pay. This will remain unsolved for centuries unless Spore declared war with them. Its either we suffer in silence and dont complain or take concrete steps. As mention, since billions $ are lost, dont u think its better we use 1 billion $ to help resolve it. They dont burn forest fires every year as far as my memory can remember. Spore have given them humanitarian aid many times and they readily and happily accepted it.

It may start with $1B. When other "farmers" start to see free money come in, and they don't have to work for it, maybe it will balloon to $5B or even $10B? Else they will threaten with more burning.

maybe should seed the clouds for some rain in SG...

Dont target the farmers. Target the wholesaler that collect palm from them.
or Target the refinery. But must ask Big Bro China to impose some kind of certification on these exports.

Or stop cutting down forest (Bukit Brown cemetery) in SG to build flats and condos. Notice the Central area has lower PSI. Got green lungs...

If only 1 or 2 people doing this somebody can catch them but there could be hundreds of small farmers we could be talking about not 10-50 trees but each farmer have hundreds of trees to clear up to 50 hectres of land to fertilizer, and all these trees are probably old palm trees and the oil in it are going to give off a lot of smoke when burnt. To do it in a non-pollution manner going to cost a lot of money and somebody has to pay for all this meanwhile a box of matches is less than 10 cents will clear everything and the ash from burnt trees will fertilize the land.

if don't burn means after cutting down trees they need to employ many laborers to take away the tree logs, take to where? In the end also need to burn what and it will affect somebody else somewhere and the ground also needs to be fertilized so more money need to spend to buy fertilizer. If cost is so high would anybody still do business with them or not? Final end consumer product are we willing to pay high premium for green products?

If you give them money, every year they will expect it, you are going to become their hostage and the price keeps rising and the 1 time you don't pay they will start burning crazy to whack you for it.

Only way everybody get up do the rain dance

(20-06-2013, 08:10 AM)opmi Wrote: maybe should seed the clouds for some rain in SG...

Dont target the farmers. Target the wholesaler that collect palm from them.
or Target the refinery. But must ask Big Bro China to impose some kind of certification on these exports.

Or stop cutting down forest (Bukit Brown cemetery) in SG to build flats and condos. Notice the Central area has lower PSI. Got green lungs...

I don't refer to the real farmers. I mean "farmers". When there are free money, soon there will be another extra 100 millions "farmers" appearing from no where, asking for money.

There will be no end if using money. The best I think Sg Govt can do is to help to deploy people over to fight the fire, if there is any means of doing that over such a big area.

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(20-06-2013, 10:12 AM)sgd Wrote: If only 1 or 2 people doing this somebody can catch them but there could be hundreds of small farmers we could be talking about not 10-50 trees but each farmer have hundreds of trees to clear up to 50 hectres of land to fertilizer, and all these trees are probably old palm trees and the oil in it are going to give off a lot of smoke when burnt. To do it in a non-pollution manner going to cost a lot of money and somebody has to pay for all this meanwhile a box of matches is less than 10 cents will clear everything and the ash from burnt trees will fertilize the land.

if don't burn means after cutting down trees they need to employ many laborers to take away the tree logs, take to where? In the end also need to burn what and it will affect somebody else somewhere and the ground also needs to be fertilized so more money need to spend to buy fertilizer. If cost is so high would anybody still do business with them or not? Final end consumer product are we willing to pay high premium for green products?

If you give them money, every year they will expect it, you are going to become their hostage and the price keeps rising and the 1 time you don't pay they will start burning crazy to whack you for it.

Only way everybody get up do the rain dance

How about getting the logging companies to go and cut down the trees, in exchange of some cheap fertilizer? Or the trees there are of no value at all?

(19-06-2013, 09:58 PM)TheMillennium Wrote: Haze so bad. Trains so bad. Hot and humid weather so bad.

Now all that's left is for Ben to say something bad.

Ben said something bad

should be quite profitable for companies like OSIM now, everyone rushing to buy air filter and purifiers..

(20-06-2013, 10:19 AM)Penguin Papa Wrote:

(20-06-2013, 08:10 AM)opmi Wrote: maybe should seed the clouds for some rain in SG...

Dont target the farmers. Target the wholesaler that collect palm from them.
or Target the refinery. But must ask Big Bro China to impose some kind of certification on these exports.

Or stop cutting down forest (Bukit Brown cemetery) in SG to build flats and condos. Notice the Central area has lower PSI. Got green lungs...

I don't refer to the real farmers. I mean "farmers". When there are free money, soon there will be another extra 100 millions "farmers" appearing from no where, asking for money.

There will be no end if using money. The best I think Sg Govt can do is to help to deploy people over to fight the fire, if there is any means of doing that over such a big area.

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(20-06-2013, 10:12 AM)sgd Wrote: If only 1 or 2 people doing this somebody can catch them but there could be hundreds of small farmers we could be talking about not 10-50 trees but each farmer have hundreds of trees to clear up to 50 hectres of land to fertilizer, and all these trees are probably old palm trees and the oil in it are going to give off a lot of smoke when burnt. To do it in a non-pollution manner going to cost a lot of money and somebody has to pay for all this meanwhile a box of matches is less than 10 cents will clear everything and the ash from burnt trees will fertilize the land.

if don't burn means after cutting down trees they need to employ many laborers to take away the tree logs, take to where? In the end also need to burn what and it will affect somebody else somewhere and the ground also needs to be fertilized so more money need to spend to buy fertilizer. If cost is so high would anybody still do business with them or not? Final end consumer product are we willing to pay high premium for green products?

If you give them money, every year they will expect it, you are going to become their hostage and the price keeps rising and the 1 time you don't pay they will start burning crazy to whack you for it.

Only way everybody get up do the rain dance

How about getting the logging companies to go and cut down the trees, in exchange of some cheap fertilizer? Or the trees there are of no value at all?

After logging companies cut down trees and take it away how they going to dispose these trees, what's going to happen to these cut trees? My view is it will still go to some incinerator to be burnt but you are right if there is some value for these cut trees then recycle could be a good option.

We also have to think these farmers are not doing anything illegal they are farming and slash and burn is an old farming practice, so you want the authorities to go in and do what? Their hands are also tied. The government also don't want to interfere too much otherwise how they going have to feed these people I think they prefer let the people find their own living. July to Sept period usually driest periods of the year that's why they waited for non-wet season to do this.

the thing is 'tragedy of the commons'. everyone wants to do slash and burn NOW . At this time of the year. Less rain. More natural fire. Can burn undercover and blame it on natural. A solution is controlled burning diversifed over geography and timing. Execution is hard when everyone looking out for No. 1.


jialat. Sore throat from haze already....maybe it is from the deep-fried 'butterfly' I ate just now...hahaha...

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Despite the bloodbath in the markets and haze, enjoy