ANNUTIES-How can we use them?

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#71
(08-05-2013, 10:31 PM)HitandRun Wrote:
(08-05-2013, 06:40 PM)tanjm Wrote: The attraction of this website is the focus on investments. It's disconcerting to see political agenda disguised as investment discussions. Not only that, but its a disservice (and damaging to valuebuddies long term reputation) to the 90% of people who come here to get a neutral opinion on financial products or companies.

If I were talking about annuities generally (not CPF life), I wouldn't get such a response.

Relax bro. Although Uncle Temperament is unabashedly anti-govt, I believe that he has a point. Most retirees couldn't care less or understand how the govt arrived at the computations. They are only interested in certain questions, e.g.

1. How much am I going to get on a monthly basis?
2. When will the govt stop paying me?
3. What happens to the money should I "expire" prematurely?

Therefore, if they can get more in the new scheme (CPF Life), their support will likely be higher.

Not sure about others, when I see any non-political thread being politicized, I lost interest in replying.
I suppose there is a right time and place for anything. Too much of political grumbling is not good for health.

Last reply. Sorry if you feel offended.
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#72
(08-05-2013, 10:54 PM)yeokiwi Wrote:
(08-05-2013, 10:31 PM)HitandRun Wrote:
(08-05-2013, 06:40 PM)tanjm Wrote: The attraction of this website is the focus on investments. It's disconcerting to see political agenda disguised as investment discussions. Not only that, but its a disservice (and damaging to valuebuddies long term reputation) to the 90% of people who come here to get a neutral opinion on financial products or companies.

If I were talking about annuities generally (not CPF life), I wouldn't get such a response.

Relax bro. Although Uncle Temperament is unabashedly anti-govt, I believe that he has a point. Most retirees couldn't care less or understand how the govt arrived at the computations. They are only interested in certain questions, e.g.

1. How much am I going to get on a monthly basis?
2. When will the govt stop paying me?
3. What happens to the money should I "expire" prematurely?

Therefore, if they can get more in the new scheme (CPF Life), their support will likely be higher.

Not sure about others, when I see any non-political thread being politicized, I lost interest in replying.
I suppose there is a right time and place for anything. Too much of political grumbling is not good for health.

Last reply. Sorry if you feel offended.

A few weeks back, when politicizing threads was very much in vogue, I got very frustrated having to go thro' numerous posts and finding many with little / no stocks related contents. Altho' I did think of stopping to visit VB (like what I did at Wallstraits sometime in end-'08 when it looks more like "War-Straits"...), I finally decided to explore the user settings (click on User CP which is located near the top of the page) to see if I could do a 'Block' setting of those who loves to talk more about politics than stocks.

I found such a feature in 'Ignore List' (left column under 'Miscellaneous' and grouped with 'Buddy/Ignore List') which is very easy to set. I got a bit carried away and beside 'Ignoring' those who posts mostly on politics, I also 'Ignored' those who post numerous one-liners on stocks that's way beyond my level of comprehension. Others would be those that I seem to be offending easily due to my low EQ (so that I won't be tempted to reply to their posts and unintentionally offend them again and again)... The end result is now, I'm a lot more productive on VB...Big Grin

Note that the 'Ignore List' works only when you're logged in. You'll also see the 'Ignored' posts if it gets quoted by another person. But, I can live with that..Cool
Luck & Fortune Favours those who are Prepared & Decisive when Opportunity Knocks
------------ 知己知彼 ,百战不殆 ;不知彼 ,不知己 ,每战必殆 ------------
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#73
(08-05-2013, 10:54 PM)yeokiwi Wrote: Last reply. Sorry if you feel offended.

I'm not offended if you happen to be referring to me.Big Grin
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#74
Thank you.
Everyone of you who are here shows we are all the same after all. It is the differences among us make us all the same. We always think we are the best and not even LKY can compare. NO or Yes? Me is guilty often - knowingly or unknowingly. How about you?
Sorry, i like to think if we all agree or the same all the time, the world doesn't exist anymore. Just like Market crashes when all think the same.
i think i am really tired of this thread now.
Period!
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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#75
(08-05-2013, 11:39 PM)KopiKat Wrote: I found such a feature in 'Ignore List' (left column under 'Miscellaneous' and grouped with 'Buddy/Ignore List') which is very easy to set.

The "Ignore List" is self explanatory, but I am looking for a "follow" feature instead, as I do not wish to miss posts by d.o.g, dydx, nick and a few others. Can I do that using "Buddy List" ?
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#76
(09-05-2013, 10:52 AM)wsreader Wrote:
(08-05-2013, 11:39 PM)KopiKat Wrote: I found such a feature in 'Ignore List' (left column under 'Miscellaneous' and grouped with 'Buddy/Ignore List') which is very easy to set.

The "Ignore List" is self explanatory, but I am looking for a "follow" feature instead, as I do not wish to miss posts by d.o.g, dydx, nick and a few others. Can I do that using "Buddy List" ?

I also created a 'Buddy List'. With that, when you are logged in, you can click on the 'Open Buddy List' at the top right hand corner of the page and it'll pop up a tiny window of all your 'Buddies' and when they were last active. You'll have to click on the 'buddy' of interest and click on 'Find All Posts'. Not so useful actually. Perhaps more useful if you'd been away from the forum for days or if the forum becomes a lot more fast moving.
Luck & Fortune Favours those who are Prepared & Decisive when Opportunity Knocks
------------ 知己知彼 ,百战不殆 ;不知彼 ,不知己 ,每战必殆 ------------
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#77
(09-05-2013, 11:03 AM)KopiKat Wrote:
(09-05-2013, 10:52 AM)wsreader Wrote:
(08-05-2013, 11:39 PM)KopiKat Wrote: I found such a feature in 'Ignore List' (left column under 'Miscellaneous' and grouped with 'Buddy/Ignore List') which is very easy to set.

The "Ignore List" is self explanatory, but I am looking for a "follow" feature instead, as I do not wish to miss posts by d.o.g, dydx, nick and a few others. Can I do that using "Buddy List" ?

I also created a 'Buddy List'. With that, when you are logged in, you can click on the 'Open Buddy List' at the top right hand corner of the page and it'll pop up a tiny window of all your 'Buddies' and when they were last active. You'll have to click on the 'buddy' of interest and click on 'Find All Posts'. Not so useful actually. Perhaps more useful if you'd been away from the forum for days or if the forum becomes a lot more fast moving.
The False Promises of Annuities and Annuity Calculators

Ever-popular annuities sometimes sound too good to be true, which in itself is probably a good reason to avoid them.

An annuity is a financial product sold as a way to collect and grow funds and then later receive those funds as a steady cash flow during retirement. Annuities have many flavors and features that vary this basic principle, but the basic terms you will hear are “deferred or immediate” and “fixed or variable.”

A deferred annuity puts off taking withdrawals, whereas with an immediate annuity you can take withdrawals right away. A fixed annuity has a preset withdrawal amount that does not adjust for inflation. A variable annuity is tied to the performance of some investment choices.

Commission-based advisors with insurance licenses sell you whatever form of annuity would have performed well over the past decade. They say they are fee-based, at least partly to sound more like fee-only financial planners. If you are confused by these distinctions, then 93% of the financial services world who can’t call themselves fee-only are doing their jobs well. You do well when you remember that fee-based is not the same as fee-only.

Let’s review the math behind an immediate fixed annuity. This type of annuity receives a fair amount of seemingly scholarly press trying to justify including this product as part of a balanced portfolio.

Imagine that Thomas and Martha Jefferson, ages 64 and 62, respectively, purchase an immediate annuity that will pay them a guaranteed 6% annual return. If they have $500,000, they would receive $30,000 every year for the rest of their lives. This income, added to their Social Security, would comprise the spending for their lifestyle.

This scenario sounds fair. After all, who wouldn’t want to have earned 6% over the last 10 years during these mixed markets? Earning 6% guaranteed feels like a good exchange for the uncertainty of the markets. But it is not. Here’s why.

First, the S&P 500′s return over the past 10 years was 6.34%. So even in some of the worst markets in recent history, the return of the S&P 500 was better than the perceived return of this guaranteed annuity.

Second, the annuity does not have a 6% return, even if the Jeffersons lived forever. Buying an annuity begins with the immediate loss of 100% of your original investment. So for the first 15 years, the annuity company is simply giving you back your original purchase price. The way most salespeople describe thinking about the annuity discourages investors from realizing that their original money is gone forever. They do this by referring to it as an investment. I would not call it an investment because after you purchase an annuity, your principal no longer has any value.

The entire selling point of the annuity is a lower return in exchange for a guarantee. But when analyzed, the purchase price is a loss you can never recover from. We can analyze this annuity purchase like an investment and calculate an internal rate of return (IRR). For the first 15 years, the IRR is 0% because the annuity company simply hands you back your own money.

If Thomas and Martha die after 16 years, the IRR would be 0.92%. If they live to age 85, after 23 years the IRR will finally have risen to 3.47%. If they both live to be 100, the IRR would still only be 5.57%. Even if the Jeffersons lived forever, the IRR couldn’t exceed 6% because they lost their original $500,000.



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Third, immediate annuities are not indexed for inflation. Part of their appeal is having at least some stream of guaranteed spendable income, but guaranteed to buy what? This annuity quote is for a fixed payment of $30,000. The payment is fixed in dollars whose buying power diminishes by inflation every year.

According to the government consumer price index (CPI), $5,081 in 1970 had the same buying power as $30,000 today. Imagine thinking you had your future retirement needs guaranteed in 1970 by buying an immediate annuity paying $5,081. An annuity is supposed to be longevity insurance. But now at 104 years old, you are trying to live off a sixth of what you needed when you began your retirement.

The only real guarantee of an annuity is a diminishing lifestyle because of inflation. We use 4.5% as an average inflation rate. By the time Martha is 85 years old, inflation will have reduced the buying power of the annuity from $30,000 to less than $11,000.

Annuities offer too much income to spend early in retirement only to keep that number constant and offer too little later in life. This math error is part of their mistaken appeal to the public. We would suggest that the safe spending rate for a couple with $500,000 is only 4.17% at age 62. This would limit their annual safe spending to $20,850.

But with an appropriate asset allocation and this rate of spending, the Jeffersons would have a good chance most years to enjoy an increase in their spending allowance greater than inflation as their assets appreciated. And any unused assets could be left as an inheritance for their heirs.

Finally, I’ve used the example of a 6% or $30,000 annuity, but the best quote I was given for my sample couple was $27,569. And the quote for an annuity tied to the urban consumer version of the CPI index was for $15,814.

We don’t recommend an allocation to annuities for any portion of your portfolio. We believe an age-appropriate allocation to bonds provides a similar boost to the likelihood you will have sufficient assets in retirement. We suggest allocating five to seven years of safe spending in stable investments with the remainder in appreciating assets.

Coupled with staying within an age-appropriate safe spending rate, this strategy provides the best balance between sleeping well tonight and eating well in 10 years.

Quote:An alternatives? What say you? CPF LIFE only promise 3.75 to 4.? %
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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#78
If you are a Japanese to retire in 1990, you will wish that you never listen to that advice...
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#79
(18-05-2013, 04:41 PM)NTL Wrote: If you are a Japanese to retire in 1990, you will wish that you never listen to that advice...
Sorry, can you elaborate? Are you pro or con? i suppose you are the former? Inflation in Japan from 1990 till now must be as bad as USA also.
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
Reply
#80
(18-05-2013, 04:47 PM)Temperament Wrote:
(18-05-2013, 04:41 PM)NTL Wrote: If you are a Japanese to retire in 1990, you will wish that you never listen to that advice...
Sorry, can you elaborate? Are you pro or con? i suppose you are the former? Inflation in Japan from 1990 till now must be as bad as USA also.

Yup, con.

Digging a bit into some historical data.

http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EN2...&z=l&q=l&c=

Since 1990, Japan Nikkei Index is going down from 40,000 to 8,000, only to recover to 15,000 pretty recently.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/go...bond-yield

Japanese 10yr Govt Bond had been under 2% since 1997. Current rate is not even 0.5%.

http://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/...japan.aspx

The inflation for Japan CPI since 1990 is almost flat.

If follow the advice, and a Japanese only invest in his own country (which most nationals actually do), will he be able to have sufficient funds for retirment?

Maybe I just overly pessimistic, but I rather be safe, then to err when my turn is here. That's why I rather put a little of my savings in an annuity plan.
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