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(19-04-2013, 07:20 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: (19-04-2013, 06:57 PM)cfa Wrote: Will the management take the views seriously from the minorities during AGMs ? Many simply wayang to them.
AGM provides minorities opportunity to voice their views, and i did hear from them in many AGMs attended.
Will the management take their view seriously? Well, that depend what is the definition of "seriously". If "seriously" mean minority's view out-weight majority's view, that probably i will disagree. Hold it! Why disagree? What then, if Minority's view may be better or more beneficial to company operations. Same like in a GE, majority view is not always correct or beneficial to the country.
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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19-04-2013, 07:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-04-2013, 08:04 PM by Some-one.)
(19-04-2013, 01:57 PM)freedom Wrote: (19-04-2013, 11:19 AM)kazukirai Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:44 AM)Musicwhiz Wrote: Solution to all this? Own less companies - a concentrated portfolio haha. Or else own companies with different year-ends. Perhaps Mano Sabnani can consider that? Owning >50 companies is akin to buying the index actually!
My initial focus was on Mano's number of companies too. 50! That's a hell lot of businesses to keep track of. Especially when academic studies show no marked improvement in diversification after something like 30 counters.
Since the STI is more or less made of the 30 biggest companies (with liquidity as another consideration) listed on the SGX; If all Mano's companies form an index, it'll be even more representative of the SG market than our STI.
my understanding is that the 50 companies are in his watch list, not necessarily he invests big in each of the 50 companies. If it is only in his watchlist, he wouldn't even be able to attend it so he must have stakes in them
(19-04-2013, 01:06 PM)dzwm87 Wrote: IMO, the most important part during the AGM is the informal meeting with mgmt during the refreshment period. We can fish out more info from that than those regarding dividends/directors' pay/etc.
I beg to differ in this point. I have just attended 3 in the span of one day even though there are supposed to be 5 that I wish I could attend. From the numerous AGMs that I have attended, if time permits, the questions should be asked during the AGM. This is because after the meeting, a lot of the big guys would run off. And if you are to ask them during the informal meeting, they would not be serious in answering your questions.
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(19-04-2013, 07:58 PM)Some-one Wrote: (19-04-2013, 01:57 PM)freedom Wrote: (19-04-2013, 11:19 AM)kazukirai Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:44 AM)Musicwhiz Wrote: Solution to all this? Own less companies - a concentrated portfolio haha. Or else own companies with different year-ends. Perhaps Mano Sabnani can consider that? Owning >50 companies is akin to buying the index actually!
My initial focus was on Mano's number of companies too. 50! That's a hell lot of businesses to keep track of. Especially when academic studies show no marked improvement in diversification after something like 30 counters.
Since the STI is more or less made of the 30 biggest companies (with liquidity as another consideration) listed on the SGX; If all Mano's companies form an index, it'll be even more representative of the SG market than our STI.
my understanding is that the 50 companies are in his watch list, not necessarily he invests big in each of the 50 companies. If it is only in his watchlist, he wouldn't even be able to attend it so he must have stakes in them
so you never buy just a few lots to have annual report delivered and attend AGM to meet the management in person?
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But he made his point felt. In a way effective.
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(19-04-2013, 07:27 PM)Temperament Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:20 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: (19-04-2013, 06:57 PM)cfa Wrote: Will the management take the views seriously from the minorities during AGMs ? Many simply wayang to them.
AGM provides minorities opportunity to voice their views, and i did hear from them in many AGMs attended.
Will the management take their view seriously? Well, that depend what is the definition of "seriously". If "seriously" mean minority's view out-weight majority's view, that probably i will disagree. Hold it! Why disagree? What then, if Minority's view may be better or more beneficial to company operations. Same like in a GE, majority view is not always correct or beneficial to the country.
Well, the rule of the game is majority view is THE view, with majority votes.
The good news is the minority always has a choice to walk away if disagree 
“夏则资皮，冬则资纱，旱则资船，水则资车” - 范蠡
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(19-04-2013, 08:24 PM)freedom Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:58 PM)Some-one Wrote: (19-04-2013, 01:57 PM)freedom Wrote: (19-04-2013, 11:19 AM)kazukirai Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:44 AM)Musicwhiz Wrote: Solution to all this? Own less companies - a concentrated portfolio haha. Or else own companies with different year-ends. Perhaps Mano Sabnani can consider that? Owning >50 companies is akin to buying the index actually!
My initial focus was on Mano's number of companies too. 50! That's a hell lot of businesses to keep track of. Especially when academic studies show no marked improvement in diversification after something like 30 counters.
Since the STI is more or less made of the 30 biggest companies (with liquidity as another consideration) listed on the SGX; If all Mano's companies form an index, it'll be even more representative of the SG market than our STI.
my understanding is that the 50 companies are in his watch list, not necessarily he invests big in each of the 50 companies. If it is only in his watchlist, he wouldn't even be able to attend it so he must have stakes in them
so you never buy just a few lots to have annual report delivered and attend AGM to meet the management in person? That would also mean that he had bought and not in his watchlist. For me, I would not do so. An investor should have analyse first before buying and not just buy for the sake of attending AGMs
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(19-04-2013, 09:22 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:27 PM)Temperament Wrote: (19-04-2013, 07:20 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: (19-04-2013, 06:57 PM)cfa Wrote: Will the management take the views seriously from the minorities during AGMs ? Many simply wayang to them.
AGM provides minorities opportunity to voice their views, and i did hear from them in many AGMs attended.
Will the management take their view seriously? Well, that depend what is the definition of "seriously". If "seriously" mean minority's view out-weight majority's view, that probably i will disagree. Hold it! Why disagree? What then, if Minority's view may be better or more beneficial to company operations. Same like in a GE, majority view is not always correct or beneficial to the country.
Well, the rule of the game is majority view is THE view, with majority votes.
The good news is the minority always has a choice to walk away if disagree Well at AGM, majority votes may be the game. After that the actual internal company's operation may be anything. Then we will have the next AGM again.
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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19-04-2013, 10:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-04-2013, 10:24 PM by pianist.)
one of the best replies i ever learnt from a ceo during a agm to all kinds of feedback/suggestions/opinions, was just to consistently say "noted"...."noted"..."noted"....and so on.
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Or, they will praise you by saying "you have raided a very good point "", will take note and look into it.
One of the ceo even "suan "' by saying you are v. good in this sector, we will call on you if we need professional advice.
“risk comes from not knowing what you’re doing.”
I don’t look to jump over 7-foot bars: I look around for 1-foot bars that I can step over.
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(19-04-2013, 09:36 PM)Some-one Wrote: An investor should have analyse first before buying and not just buy for the sake of attending AGMs
The ideal situation would be to talk to the management and board before buying the stock. But unless you are some big fish, it's counter productive for them to entertain you. Your few $k is just not worth their time and hence the only way for small fish to "meet the management" is the general meeting. Here we have a catch 22. But do get ready your CV because some may be quite free.
For retail investors, there are just so much you can extract from the meeting. Business is business and if it is one that an idiot can run, then it doesn't matter who runs it. To me, it's really to smell them close up. If they stink unmistakably, stay away.
Other times, it is an avenue for laze. Go there and hear what other shareholders have to say. See if they make sense and if you have missed out important matters.
After a while, we know who serve better buffet.
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