4 in 10 S'poreans not saving for retirement

(11-04-2013, 10:05 AM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 09:20 AM)Musicwhiz Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 09:14 AM)paullow Wrote: yes, i was just going to type what safetyfirst type.
exactly!

u got 10m in investment n investments have risks. surely keeping 1m as cash is othing less than a prudent way of managing one's wealth.
for me, i will reject all my rm request to 'grow' my sum with the bank.

OK thanks guys (Paul and Safetyfirst) for the info.

This is the same concept as emergency fund for ordinary people, the only difference is the absolute sum.

Well, there are more differences than merely numbers.

allow me to show u,

say a person has an investment of 1m in stocks (i don't have the figures but I doubt the average stock invesment near there), same proportion as 10m to place 1m in cash, so if he places 100k in cash in the bank, there's a total disproportion to what 100k can do to a 1m net worth person, as compared to what 1m can do to a 10m net worth person, and the disparity increases upwards of wealth.

one car downpayment, and 1/2 of it is gone. or some unexpected misfortune happens(touch wood), and one might even have to liquidate his part of his investment, perhaps at a loss.

singapore have 1 millionaries in 30,000. with the high standards of living and expensive housing, transport and healthcare etc, even placing 10% of 1M ie 100k cash in bank can do only that much.

TBH I'm getting quite confused over all these conflicting so called research provided by finance companies.

On one hand I read stuides saying that SG has higher percentage of millionaires (think it was ~15% IIRC) not even including primary residence.

There are also numerous studies the latest one is from Citi claiming there are many people with saving substantial amounts of money. Salary reports from those HR consultancies also point to so many jobs making >150k annually.

Anecdotal and personal observations on average SG consumption habits tend to support this affluent view as well. Mass market shopping malls are always crowded and average SGs seem to have no qualms eating in restaurants twice a week while splurging on the latest gadgets and fashion statements.

Then on the other hand we have other studies claiming most SGs do not have enough for retirement, heavily in debt, earning lousy wages etc.

It is of course easy to dismiss all these inconsistencies as rich-poor divide, but even then how can many of these supposedly population wide broad based studies reach conclusions that seem at the opposite sides of each spectrum???

(11-04-2013, 11:34 AM)mobo Wrote: TBH I'm getting quite confused over all these conflicting so called research provided by finance companies.

On one hand I read stuides saying that SG has higher percentage of millionaires (think it was ~15% IIRC) not even including primary residence.

There are also numerous studies the latest one is from Citi claiming there are many people with saving substantial amounts of money. Salary reports from those HR consultancies also point to so many jobs making >150k annually.

Anecdotal and personal observations on average SG consumption habits tend to support this affluent view as well. Mass market shopping malls are always crowded and average SGs seem to have no qualms eating in restaurants twice a week while splurging on the latest gadgets and fashion statements.

Then on the other hand we have other studies claiming most SGs do not have enough for retirement, heavily in debt, earning lousy wages etc.

It is of course easy to dismiss all these inconsistencies as rich-poor divide, but even then how can many of these supposedly population wide broad based studies reach conclusions that seem at the opposite sides of each spectrum???

Correct mah...
High income + high spending = not enough money for retirement.
High income + moderate spending + put money in bank + high inflation = not enough money for retirement.
Low income = can hardly survive now, much less talk about retirement

Only valuebuddies have enough for retirement

(11-04-2013, 11:53 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 11:34 AM)mobo Wrote: TBH I'm getting quite confused over all these conflicting so called research provided by finance companies.

On one hand I read stuides saying that SG has higher percentage of millionaires (think it was ~15% IIRC) not even including primary residence.

There are also numerous studies the latest one is from Citi claiming there are many people with saving substantial amounts of money. Salary reports from those HR consultancies also point to so many jobs making >150k annually.

Anecdotal and personal observations on average SG consumption habits tend to support this affluent view as well. Mass market shopping malls are always crowded and average SGs seem to have no qualms eating in restaurants twice a week while splurging on the latest gadgets and fashion statements.

Then on the other hand we have other studies claiming most SGs do not have enough for retirement, heavily in debt, earning lousy wages etc.

It is of course easy to dismiss all these inconsistencies as rich-poor divide, but even then how can many of these supposedly population wide broad based studies reach conclusions that seem at the opposite sides of each spectrum???

Correct mah...
High income + high spending = not enough money for retirement.
High income + moderate spending + put money in bank + high inflation = not enough money for retirement.
Low income = can hardly survive now, much less talk about retirement

Only valuebuddies have enough for retirement

Hi smallcaps,

I had divided people into 4 groups,

1. High income and not willing to spend,
2. Low income and not willing to spend,
3. High income and willing to spend,
4. Low income and willing to spend.

To me, that will be the order of which who will be able to retire with ease.

(11-04-2013, 01:04 PM)NTL Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 11:53 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 11:34 AM)mobo Wrote: TBH I'm getting quite confused over all these conflicting so called research provided by finance companies.

On one hand I read stuides saying that SG has higher percentage of millionaires (think it was ~15% IIRC) not even including primary residence.

There are also numerous studies the latest one is from Citi claiming there are many people with saving substantial amounts of money. Salary reports from those HR consultancies also point to so many jobs making >150k annually.

Anecdotal and personal observations on average SG consumption habits tend to support this affluent view as well. Mass market shopping malls are always crowded and average SGs seem to have no qualms eating in restaurants twice a week while splurging on the latest gadgets and fashion statements.

Then on the other hand we have other studies claiming most SGs do not have enough for retirement, heavily in debt, earning lousy wages etc.

It is of course easy to dismiss all these inconsistencies as rich-poor divide, but even then how can many of these supposedly population wide broad based studies reach conclusions that seem at the opposite sides of each spectrum???

Correct mah...
High income + high spending = not enough money for retirement.
High income + moderate spending + put money in bank + high inflation = not enough money for retirement.
Low income = can hardly survive now, much less talk about retirement

Only valuebuddies have enough for retirement

Hi smallcaps,

I had divided people into 4 groups,

1. High income and not willing to spend,
2. Low income and not willing to spend,
3. High income and willing to spend,
4. Low income and willing to spend.

To me, that will be the order of which who will be able to retire with ease.

The 'with ease' part sometimes seems questionable to me though. cause it is dependant on whether a person has the aptitude for saving/not spending. A person may have high income and not willing to spend but he may be of the kind whereby he feels that he is greatly restraining himself from spending and hence the process of accumulating wealth is like a kind of suffering for him.

i recall more than 10yrs ago, when i was a senior officer in the armed forces, during the lunches with the other officers we would discuss about work and non work issues. most of the non work issues were about where to go and what to buy when the pay day comes. i don't remember anyone from captain to colonel talking about investment etc.
when i do reservist now, same. but new finding-- i mix with the retired dxos. and only one of them in his 60's seemed wise with his money-fully paid up landed house and car and with a healthy stock portfolio.

(11-04-2013, 03:01 PM)paullow Wrote: i recall more than 10yrs ago, when i was a senior officer in the armed forces, during the lunches with the other officers we would discuss about work and non work issues. most of the non work issues were about where to go and what to buy when the pay day comes. i don't remember anyone from captain to colonel talking about investment etc.
when i do reservist now, same. but new finding-- i mix with the retired dxos. and only one of them in his 60's seemed wise with his money-fully paid up landed house and car and with a healthy stock portfolio.

In private companies, even senior management members are not wise in their money IMO.

A rough count shows that probably 2 in 10 have investment either in stock or property. Most are talking about changing new car, new gadgets, holiday etc.

Yes, we have to be in the right company! As the saying goes: Birds of a feather flock together!
Those with similar interests or of the same kind tend to form groups - as in Value Buddies group, we are here for a purpose. The more learned ones will teach/guide the not-so-learned ones, and the not-so-learned ones, once they reached some level of ‘enlightenment’ will pay it forward by teaching the next group of not-so-learned ones… continuous sharing = continuous learning, and the best part is – it’s FOC!

Honestly, I have learnt alot since the day I discovered VB, need not be just stock pick, can be in any other forms as well, as in create awareness on how to manage one’s money, os insurance, ponzi scheme, etc. in fact lots of things to learn just from this forum alone, no need to study PhD or MBA, not necessary that all MBAs know how to manage their money or biz. Hahaha!

For all those research or surveys, just take it with a pinch of salt. If they had interviewed people from VB, I think it would be a different story altogether.

Again a big Thank You to everyone’s continuous sharing!

---

Not sure if this statement can be applied here:

'The bigger the tree, the bigger the shade'.

I heard this saying long time ago but could not understand what it meant so I KIV until today. You see someone mentioned abt some biz against some bank debts...



Well, there are more differences than merely numbers.

allow me to show u,

say a person has an investment of 1m in stocks (i don't have the figures but I doubt the average stock invesment near there), same proportion as 10m to place 1m in cash, so if he places 100k in cash in the bank, there's a total disproportion to what 100k can do to a 1m net worth person, as compared to what 1m can do to a 10m net worth person, and the disparity increases upwards of wealth.

one car downpayment, and 1/2 of it is gone. or some unexpected misfortune happens(touch wood), and one might even have to liquidate his part of his investment, perhaps at a loss.

singapore have 1 millionaries in 30,000. with the high standards of living and expensive housing, transport and healthcare etc, even placing 10% of 1M ie 100k cash in bank can do only that much.
[/quote]

(11-04-2013, 03:46 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: In private companies, even senior management members are not wise in their money IMO.

A rough count shows that probably 2 in 10 have investment either in stock or property. Most are talking about changing new car, new gadgets, holiday etc.

I don't think this is reflective of general money management wisdom among senior managers. Most people do not discuss their personal assets or investments unless with very close friends, if at all.

A bunch of senior managers actively engaging in board room office politics are unlikely to go around discussing with each other about personal money management matters. What is left for office small talk are usually harmless and uncontroversial things like holidays, gadgets, cars, bags, kids, gossip, wine & dine etc.

Personal experience - I discovered one of my ex-bosses engages the services of a private banker by chance, yet in in the office I've never heard him say anything remotely related to investments, it's always the usual small talk on a/m subjects. On the surface, he would seem to be yet another spend as you earn guy without any knowledge or awareness of investments.

(11-04-2013, 06:23 PM)mobo Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 03:46 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: In private companies, even senior management members are not wise in their money IMO.

A rough count shows that probably 2 in 10 have investment either in stock or property. Most are talking about changing new car, new gadgets, holiday etc.

I don't think this is reflective of general money management wisdom among senior managers. Most people do not discuss their personal assets or investments unless with very close friends, if at all.

A bunch of senior managers actively engaging in board room office politics are unlikely to go around discussing with each other about personal money management matters. What is left for office small talk are usually harmless and uncontroversial things like holidays, gadgets, cars, bags, kids, gossip, wine & dine etc.

Personal experience - I discovered one of my ex-bosses engages the services of a private banker by chance, yet in in the office I've never heard him say anything remotely related to investments, it's always the usual small talk on a/m subjects. On the surface, he would seem to be yet another spend as you earn guy without any knowledge or awareness of investments.

Yes, make perfect sense. So probably better to survey around close friends