Mind... the (income) gap

(10-04-2013, 03:30 PM)natnavi Wrote: ...

Then we talk about social mobility. How many social mobility stories have you heard in Singapore these days? There are not many because it is not easy to move up the social ladder in Singapore. If you happen to be born into a poor family. Good luck to you. The richer folks will get the best tuition from expensive private schools, while you only can rely on yourself to study hard. That is even before you enter into Primary school. This severly hampers your chance of doing well in PSLE, which happens to be the main fork in the education system in Singapore. If you to badly and go to Normal (T), you can forget about entering into a proper Uni in Singapore.

Sometimes, how much you have all depends on whose womb God chose to put you in.

Social mobility stories are not rare in Singapore, probably much more common versus other countries.

How about those President Scholars that are born in poor families? How about those Ministers/PSs that are born in poor families? How about those CEOs, entrepreneurs and top earners that are born in poor families? I can go on and on....

(10-04-2013, 03:43 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:30 PM)natnavi Wrote: ...

Then we talk about social mobility. How many social mobility stories have you heard in Singapore these days? There are not many because it is not easy to move up the social ladder in Singapore. If you happen to be born into a poor family. Good luck to you. The richer folks will get the best tuition from expensive private schools, while you only can rely on yourself to study hard. That is even before you enter into Primary school. This severly hampers your chance of doing well in PSLE, which happens to be the main fork in the education system in Singapore. If you to badly and go to Normal (T), you can forget about entering into a proper Uni in Singapore.

Sometimes, how much you have all depends on whose womb God chose to put you in.

Social mobility stories are not rare in Singapore, probably much more common versus other countries.

How about those President Scholars that are born in poor families? How about those Ministers/PSs that are born in poor families? How about those CEOs, entrepreneurs and top earners that are born in poor families? I can go on and on....

Perhaps some statistics will be useful......rather than "oh, i read of this guy from poor background and blah blah".
I could be wrong but I remember i read somewhere that there is a much higher proportion of students in "good" schools with landed/private properties address. Can anybody confirm?

Of course, there will be always be some exceptions...as HIGHLIGHTED BY OUR national press....u know...politcially correct type of reporting...

well to share some statistics here. maybe things have changed since.

my sec4 RI GEP class (1994 class 4K) had 22 students, 14 of stayed in HDB estates, balance private residences (mainly landed). Please note this is obviously a lower ratio than the 80/20 for the general population but it is only to be expected I suppose.

I did not come from a well-to-do family though my parents worked hard to make sure we were never in serious need. I grew up in Sembawang Kampong then Yishun HDB. Today I am financially free and retired from full time work, and most people will consider me reasonably wealthy at the age of 34.

as for success stories, the 1st class students in economics/nus my graduation year both came from humble backgrounds and doing very well today.

(10-04-2013, 05:03 PM)godjira1 Wrote: well to share some statistics here. maybe things have changed since.

my sec4 RI GEP class (1994 class 4K) had 22 students, 14 of stayed in HDB estates, balance private residences (mainly landed). Please note this is obviously a lower ratio than the 80/20 for the general population but it is only to be expected I suppose.

I did not come from a well-to-do family though my parents worked hard to make sure we were never in serious need. I grew up in Sembawang Kampong then Yishun HDB. Today I am financially free and retired from full time work, and most people will consider me reasonably wealthy at the age of 34.

as for success stories, the 1st class students in economics/nus my graduation year both came from humble backgrounds and doing very well today.

I always knew VB attracts highly-talented and successful individuals, but reading this I was going like "Wow".

(10-04-2013, 05:03 PM)godjira1 Wrote: well to share some statistics here. maybe things have changed since.

my sec4 RI GEP class (1994 class 4K) had 22 students, 14 of stayed in HDB estates, balance private residences (mainly landed). Please note this is obviously a lower ratio than the 80/20 for the general population but it is only to be expected I suppose.

I did not come from a well-to-do family though my parents worked hard to make sure we were never in serious need. I grew up in Sembawang Kampong then Yishun HDB. Today I am financially free and retired from full time work, and most people will consider me reasonably wealthy at the age of 34.

as for success stories, the 1st class students in economics/nus my graduation year both came from humble backgrounds and doing very well today.

Hi, Godjira 1 , By any standard, you are successful. You have retired from full time work, how do you make a living now ? Hope you can share if you wish, thanks.

On the query of statistic data on social mobility, similar question was asked by NMP, and part of the answer from the Acting Minister for Social and Family Development was quoted below.

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Social mobility can be interpreted in absolute or relative terms. In absolute terms, we seek to track improvements made by individuals over time. Typical indicators may include education attainment and income.

In education, the percentages of Singaporeans who did not complete secondary education twenty and ten years ago were 10% and 4% respectively. Today, it is less than 1%. The percentages who went on to post-secondary education twenty and ten years ago were 60% and 86% respectively. Today, it is 94%.

For full-time employed residents, growth in the median gross monthly income from work (including employer CPF contributions) over 2002-2012 and 1996-2002 was 1.3% p.a. and 2.7% p.a. respectively. The equivalent figures at the 20th percentile from 2002-2012 and 1996- 2002 were 0.1% p.a. and 2.2% p.a. respectively. These figures are in real terms, i.e. after adjusting for inflation. They do not take into account Government transfers such as Workfare Income Supplement payouts that Singaporeans may have received during these periods.

Relative social mobility may be interpreted as the proportion of people who move up or down the socio-economic scale relative to the rest of their cohort over time. This reflects the churn amongst income groups in our society. We do not have data on such churn as it requires longitudinal studies over a long period of time.

musicwhiz - a nice dose of luck (right place right time) and a couple of career moves off the beaten track made the difference for me. i started in a very comfortable role at Shell but decided to venture out anyway.

cfa - sadly I never completed my cfa, I passed lvl 1 and stopped after that! i spent a career trading various things (oil/freight derivatives, oil options, physical oil of all types, physical tankers, power plants, you name it) so I am very comfortable managing my own money. Am not a true-blue value investor as it is really not my personality, but the intelligent type of risk management advocated by people like Howard Marks and Nicholas Nassim Taleb I admire very much. I have invested in a few private businesses as well where I am the controlling shareholder and so I guess I do work part-time (checking the company finances, strategising, etc). I set aside time to network with friends/associates from all walks of life to get a sense of where the money is going/new trends appearing/potential start-up business ideas.

My sources of income basically come from a) dividends (majority of my income) b) coupon payments from bonds (v little of this at the moment as I think bonds are just not worth the risk) and c) director fees from my own companies (i keep this low as it is not tax efficient).

Many thanks godjira 1 for your valuable sharing.

(10-04-2013, 03:54 PM)camelking Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:43 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:30 PM)natnavi Wrote: ...

Then we talk about social mobility. How many social mobility stories have you heard in Singapore these days? There are not many because it is not easy to move up the social ladder in Singapore. If you happen to be born into a poor family. Good luck to you. The richer folks will get the best tuition from expensive private schools, while you only can rely on yourself to study hard. That is even before you enter into Primary school. This severly hampers your chance of doing well in PSLE, which happens to be the main fork in the education system in Singapore. If you to badly and go to Normal (T), you can forget about entering into a proper Uni in Singapore.

Sometimes, how much you have all depends on whose womb God chose to put you in.

Social mobility stories are not rare in Singapore, probably much more common versus other countries.

How about those President Scholars that are born in poor families? How about those Ministers/PSs that are born in poor families? How about those CEOs, entrepreneurs and top earners that are born in poor families? I can go on and on....

Perhaps some statistics will be useful......rather than "oh, i read of this guy from poor background and blah blah".
I could be wrong but I remember i read somewhere that there is a much higher proportion of students in "good" schools with landed/private properties address. Can anybody confirm?

Of course, there will be always be some exceptions...as HIGHLIGHTED BY OUR national press....u know...politcially correct type of reporting...

IIRC it is on award of scholarships. Half if not more than half of the students comes from upper average background, something like that.

(10-04-2013, 05:45 PM)kichialo Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:54 PM)camelking Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:43 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:30 PM)natnavi Wrote: ...

Then we talk about social mobility. How many social mobility stories have you heard in Singapore these days? There are not many because it is not easy to move up the social ladder in Singapore. If you happen to be born into a poor family. Good luck to you. The richer folks will get the best tuition from expensive private schools, while you only can rely on yourself to study hard. That is even before you enter into Primary school. This severly hampers your chance of doing well in PSLE, which happens to be the main fork in the education system in Singapore. If you to badly and go to Normal (T), you can forget about entering into a proper Uni in Singapore.

Sometimes, how much you have all depends on whose womb God chose to put you in.

Social mobility stories are not rare in Singapore, probably much more common versus other countries.

How about those President Scholars that are born in poor families? How about those Ministers/PSs that are born in poor families? How about those CEOs, entrepreneurs and top earners that are born in poor families? I can go on and on....

Perhaps some statistics will be useful......rather than "oh, i read of this guy from poor background and blah blah".
I could be wrong but I remember i read somewhere that there is a much higher proportion of students in "good" schools with landed/private properties address. Can anybody confirm?

Of course, there will be always be some exceptions...as HIGHLIGHTED BY OUR national press....u know...politcially correct type of reporting...

IIRC it is on award of scholarships. Half if not more than half of the students comes from upper average background, something like that.

Thank you. Guess you are right.
Will be interesting if there is data on background of secondary 1 students of all "top" schools.

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(10-04-2013, 05:45 PM)kichialo Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:54 PM)camelking Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:43 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(10-04-2013, 03:30 PM)natnavi Wrote: ...

Then we talk about social mobility. How many social mobility stories have you heard in Singapore these days? There are not many because it is not easy to move up the social ladder in Singapore. If you happen to be born into a poor family. Good luck to you. The richer folks will get the best tuition from expensive private schools, while you only can rely on yourself to study hard. That is even before you enter into Primary school. This severly hampers your chance of doing well in PSLE, which happens to be the main fork in the education system in Singapore. If you to badly and go to Normal (T), you can forget about entering into a proper Uni in Singapore.

Sometimes, how much you have all depends on whose womb God chose to put you in.

Social mobility stories are not rare in Singapore, probably much more common versus other countries.

How about those President Scholars that are born in poor families? How about those Ministers/PSs that are born in poor families? How about those CEOs, entrepreneurs and top earners that are born in poor families? I can go on and on....

Perhaps some statistics will be useful......rather than "oh, i read of this guy from poor background and blah blah".
I could be wrong but I remember i read somewhere that there is a much higher proportion of students in "good" schools with landed/private properties address. Can anybody confirm?

Of course, there will be always be some exceptions...as HIGHLIGHTED BY OUR national press....u know...politcially correct type of reporting...

IIRC it is on award of scholarships. Half if not more than half of the students comes from upper average background, something like that.

Thank you. Guess you are right.
Will be interesting if there is data on background of secondary 1 students of all "top" schools.