Government determined to increase population to 7 mil in 2030.

(29-01-2013, 08:00 PM)2V. Wrote: How will this affect our property prices? 100K foreigners joining every year!

(29-01-2013, 07:56 PM)LionFlyer Wrote:

(29-01-2013, 07:20 PM)arthur Wrote:

(29-01-2013, 06:39 PM)Contrarian Wrote: > I said that the government does not want to increase the birthrate badly enough to take radical
> steps

Between import and locals have more children give more incentives, they choose the easier route.

The radical move may mean go back to 1 person work, 1 person care for family. 2 person work full-time in a highly stressed country, is very hard to have 2 or more kids. Stress is a big fertility killer, and the wife now places more emphasis on work success than child caring.

My opinion is Government is blatantly showing its refusal to provide incentives on giving locals more childcare incentives. I believe the subsidy numbers must be much more than their quick fix mass import solutions. Afterall, we are a nation that cannot touch its reserve unless under dire circumstances.

Apparently, 2008 Great Recession was dire enough to touch the reserves, providing enough incentives for locals to give birth isn't.

The Government probably believes that cost of radical measures hinted by d.o.g to increase birth rates are too high and probably too uncertain in its eventual outcome.

In addition, the effectiveness of such measures to increase birth rate would only bear fruit in only 1 1/5 decades when the babies become adults and become economically productive.

Importing immigrants of working age and with the necessary education/experience would be of immediate and direct economic value.

Yes, it is a conservative way to solve the so called problem.

And when you extraplolate this to year 2080, NO native Singaporeans left behind? Is this what we want?

So what our property prices increase? At WHAT and WHOSE cost?
You may profit from it. Your children? How about your grandchildren?

Immigration is a possibility, and your descendants will no longer have a country which their forefathers once called MY HOME, MY SINGAPORE.

Is this the price to be paid for selfishness in accepting large number of foreginers so as to have world number 1 in property prices?
Is overtaking Hongkong the ultimate dream for property agents and investors?

Having a huge profit from properties in one generation only to have your next generation being unable to afford or to migrate to a unknown country to start ALL OVER AGAIN?

I did NOT had my hair cut botak at 18, to stand at attention to be bark at like a dog during my BMT for nothing.
I did NOT had a holiday excursion at 4days 3 nights at Lim Chu Kang chalets every freaking year for my reservist cycle for nothing.
I did NOT had to stand in line with hundreds of botaks, regardless of Language, Race, or Religion, to get the army cooks to splatter everything in one lump into my mess meal aluminium try for NOTHING.

We only want to give our children the best so as to provide them a headstart, thus we serve our nation well.
I still had my back injury coming back once awhile where I cannot even walk properly for 10mins. Even the specialist could not identify the injury cause nor cure.
This is a COMMON story to all native SIngaporeans who have served their nation well in repayment for being a citizen.
This is our contributions to OUR NATION, OUR HOME.

Think carefully exactly what you want...

(29-01-2013, 06:33 PM)violinist Wrote: Is Japan on a doom path? Already one decade of low or no growth, plus a severe disaster. Are they changing the policy to allow more immigrants? If their government do that, I think it will topple immediately.

See my post #17 and response by yeokiwi. If Japanese remain stubborn they may not even need a government by end of this century. The Japanese know this; they are not stupid. But unlike our govt they are paralysed for a myriad of reasons. Someone down the road will have to pick up the irreversible crap.

The issues of immigration are complex. But I strongly believe that keeping our identity and giving citizens privileges are the key objectives even as we import human resource. So I agree with Arthur in general. A cosmopolitan with no allegiance will not work and it is probably the main reason why city states not exist for long.

(29-01-2013, 08:17 PM)arthur Wrote: And when you extraplolate this to year 2080, NO native Singaporeans left behind? Is this what we want?

During the Parliament debate on the White Paper in Feb, I am fairly sure that the argument would be framed in the context of survival at all cost.

And in that context, does the concept of "native Singaporean" matter?

edit:
This whole argument reminds of the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". No doubt that it is a solution but if we lose our souls in the process, then what's the point?

Personally the concept of Native Singaporeans dont matter anymore.

When you mention yr 2080. Look the red indians in the U.S, what happen and how do they reside after 100 years?

Im seriously considering switch my career to be a property developer or into property investment. Its long term uptrend till year 2030

(29-01-2013, 08:42 PM)LionFlyer Wrote:

(29-01-2013, 08:17 PM)arthur Wrote: And when you extraplolate this to year 2080, NO native Singaporeans left behind? Is this what we want?

During the Parliament debate on the White Paper in Feb, I am fairly sure that the argument would be framed in the context of survival at all cost.

And in that context, does the concept of "native Singaporean" matter?

(29-01-2013, 08:47 PM)2V. Wrote: Personally the concept of Native Singaporeans dont matter anymore.

When you mention yr 2080. Look the red indians in the U.S, what happen and how do they reside after 100 years?

Im seriously considering switch my career to be a property developer or into property investment. Its long term uptrend till year 2030

With these comments, I see no future in Singapore anymore.
It has become a souless nation.

We will not survive any calamity.

Seems like this story is more fact than fiction. Because we have grown souless with greed only in our mind.
There will be repurcssions in the social stratification.



It is the Year 2083. Singapore is now the 8th largest city in Malaysia, and has been renamed Pulau Selatan, or Southern Island. After years of infighting, Singapore was unable to catch up in the new economic world system and had to ask Malaysia to buy off its fortune. Iskandar is now the largest port in Southeast Asia. Bintan now rivals Iskandar as the regional hub, after the Indonesian government poured in millions to develop the Riau Islands in the late 2030s.

There are now about 500,000 people living in Singapore, not bad for a country which once was the shining beacon of Southeast Asia, where at its heyday when it had nearly 6.5 million people on the island. Most ex-Singaporeans had migrated to Kuala Lumpur, Iskandar and Penang to work in the service sectors there, after Singapore underwent waves of recession and collapsed. Most of the MRT lines built in the early part of the century had gone into disuse and had to be closed down. They provide refuge for the many homeless people who are now allowed to roam free on the island.

Things weren’t always like this. If you speak to an elderly sleeping in one of the disused MRT tunnels, he would tell you that in its days of glory, Singapore was the richest country in the world. It’s GDP per capita was the highest in the world in the 2020s, for at least over a decade. However, he also remembered how the income inequality was so high that it got people very angry. The government wasn’t able to appease the people and had turned to a strategy of chastising the people for not appreciating the government. This only got the people even angrier and the squabble just went downhill.

The government had turned back on its policy of welcoming foreigners into Singapore in the early 2010s, as a result of its people’s demands. By the late 2010s, there were only less than 10,000 people accepted as Singaporeans and PRs annually. Singaporeans had mostly cheered but what also happened was that industries in Singapore starting facing a shortage of labour and started to move their investments to Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia. Instead of improving the work-life conditions of its people and increasing funding for fertility programmes, the government refused to do so but made a sudden U-turn instead, as it had done in 2005, to allow for an influx of foreigners without a well thought-through policy. It got the people angry once again as once again, incomes in the lower wage groups became depressed and Singaporeans felt slighted.

By the 2030s, Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia were prospering with the investments that were leaving Singapore. It would be another two decades when their GDP per capita outgrew Singapore’s. Meanwhile, Singaporeans continued to go online to complain about the government and the government continued to fight back with self-appreciating remarks, not realizing that their outdated PR strategy wasn’t working for them anymore. No one had any solutions. Mass demonstrations were legalized in the late 2020s. But as Singaporeans were new to the concept, they took to the streets and continued their avalanche of complaints. The years of controlling Singapore had now created Singaporeans who knew nothing about critical social and political thinking and could only degenerate themselves into loudmouths who had nothing useful to say but with anger spewing out in every direction.

By then, the “silent majority” started to speak up. They tried to mediate among the angry people and the government. But even then, it was too late. There was very little trust between the people and the government and nothing the “silent majority” tried could bridge the differences. They started offering solutions and taking things into their own hands to fix things. But they continued to face the wrath of the angry Singaporeans, who turned onto them, thinking that they were the government’s lackey.

In the general elections of the 2040s, PAP finally lost power to the opposition. The people were overjoyed and finally, for once, we thought that things were going to get better. The people might actually work with the government to change things! But as it is, the angry people continued to be angry. Only then were we starting to realise that they were angry because they simply were. Sure, it was the PAP government which they were initially angry with but it snowballed and they couldn’t hold back. By then, a newly minted opposition-led party tried to introduce policies which appeased the people, but these policies were less effective than what they would have been if they could be hard-hitting and did what was necessary. In the next few elections, new governments were voted in and as they continued to try to appease Singaporeans, and rendered the government useless.

By the late 2070s, Singapore was long forgotten in the world economy. It ranked in the nineties in terms of GDP per capita. Malaysia’s GDP was several times higher than Singapore’s. Many Singaporeans had started leaving Singapore from the 2050s – at least for those who could still afford to do so. By the early 2080s, the government started negotiating with Malaysia for a buy-back deal, where Malaysia would take Singapore back, in exchange for cheaper labour for Malaysia’s service industries. The deal was finalised by the late 2080s and Singapore started sending its first batch of workers to mainland Malaysia.

When the elderly man who was sleeping in the train tunnel was asked why he didn’t have a home to go to, he said that when the government had proposed to build a nursing home next to where he had lived, he had petitioned against it. Now that he was in his 90s, not only does he have a home to go to, the nursing home which would have benefited him wasn’t even built. He regretted his decision for being self-centred and to have thought only of himself. But it didn’t matter anymore then since Singapore was in the down in the dumps anyway.

http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-2502-...l#pid35458

Why they bother to conduct National conversations in the first place when they refuse to listen to the citizens ?

(29-01-2013, 09:29 PM)cfa Wrote: Why they bother to conduct National conversations in the first place when they refuse to listen to the citizens ?

Perhaps the higher ups knew some Singaporean PRs would take advantage of the population increase and convert to citizenship, giving them the mandate to continue ruling. They could either set up property development company or invest in properties.

Once the property bubble is squeeze hard enough, say 2030, the New Citizens would dust their backside and leave the country with fat package and CPF cash out.

Only the natives would feel for the downtrodden brothers and sisters left behind and to recitify the repercussions of such drastic "grow GDP at all cost" measures.

Do not be dispair. We have 16 years to prepare till 2030...

If situation turn out worse, we can also leave

(29-01-2013, 09:47 PM)arthur Wrote:

(29-01-2013, 09:29 PM)cfa Wrote: Why they bother to conduct National conversations in the first place when they refuse to listen to the citizens ?

Perhaps the higher ups knew some Singaporean PRs would take advantage of the population increase and convert to citizenship, giving them the mandate to continue ruling. They could either set up property development company or invest in properties.

Once the property bubble is squeeze hard enough, say 2030, the New Citizens would dust their backside and leave the country with fat package and CPF cash out.

Only the natives would feel for the downtrodden brothers and sisters left behind and to recitify the repercussions of such drastic "grow GDP at all cost" measures.

(29-01-2013, 09:29 PM)cfa Wrote: Why they bother to conduct National conversations in the first place when they refuse to listen to the citizens ?

Because it is an exercise to explain to SIngaporeans, we have
feedback all the inputs. They are hearing (oh yes, hear you).

*** LOYALTY CANNOT BE BOUGHT *** They chose to print new ICs. Apply a quantative solution, to a solution that impacts social fabric, values.

I accept many people do not want to do low pay job. But I cannot accept the simpler way out.

(29-01-2013, 08:17 PM)arthur Wrote: And when you extraplolate this to year 2080, NO native Singaporeans left behind? Is this what we want?

Think carefully exactly what you want...

Err..how did you extrapolate? I would think that if we succeed to bring the population to 6.9 Million by 2030 with the help of immigration, 50 years down the road we should have a strong core of at least second generation Singaporeans!

I am second generation Singaporean. I hope I qualify as a native Singaporean by your book.

You should try to extrapolate the other way - no immigration - and see where it leads to eventually. There are many investment experts here, so I am sure the power of compounding is well understood. This is like "reverse compounding".

BTW, having a 6.9 million population may also mean more political choices. Native Singaporeans' wish for a 2 party parliament may be fully realized with a bigger population. You know...WP and NSP dominating parliament. No more PAP by then.