CPFIS funds post 4.06% loss in 2nd quarter

(04-09-2012, 12:12 PM)wsreader Wrote: If contributions of 14% to 16% of one's income for most of one's work life is only for a supplement to one's retirement living income, how much more then, should one put aside for the main source of one's retirement living income?
Since it is only a supplement, it follows then that CPF LIFE is insufficient, even if it is described as provides for life?

Just some comments to challenge the mainstream thinking.

There are retirees survive with S$1500 pm regular income, while there are people dread to retire even with a promising $5000 pm regular income. So how to conclude enough?

CPF LIFE is a scheme that will provide (minimum) lifelong income for our elderly in their retirement. If an individual feel that it is not sufficient, then supplementary plan should be prepared.

(04-09-2012, 10:03 AM)KopiKat Wrote: Previously, when the profits could be withdrawn, I was actively investing my CPF funds to invest in stocks. Quite 'shiok' to have extra cash flow every year from the profits...

Once they stopped that practice, I decided it's not really worth the time and effort, especially since my investible amount kept getting lower (every time I do a sell, some funds will be sucked back into my untouchable CPF account) due to changing rules and increasing Minimum Sum. I sold all my shares and used it to pay down (then off) my Housing Loan. Today, I have only ~$5k in my CPF-OA.

Instead of looking at my CPF monies as untouchable low-hanging fruits and feeling angry, upset and miserable all the time, I'd decided instead to channel and focus all my energies into building up my own funds, saving and investing and compounding it. The intent and purpose is to reach a point where the total CPF monies is insignificant, as compared to what I have (that's within my full control).

IMO, at retirement, if your CPF monies is going to be a significant amount as compared to your total Net Worth, I don't think you're going to have a very enjoyable lifestyle...

On the other hand i think if you have excess investment cash funds, you should make use of parking your "excess" investible CPF $ in CPFIS. As bank interest rate is worst than peanuts now.

Excess Fund:-
And if you are 55 now, don't close your CPFIS account now. Treat your CPFIS account as a "Banking Account" that pays you 2.5% +1% in OA and 4 % in SA. You can never get this "special treatment". It's almost a "Free Lunch". No Bond can compare. Not even AAA Corporate Bonds.
Under current economic situation, think twice about closing your CPFIS when you reach 55 years old. And when the Market crashes, you have ready CPF fund to invest.
You can also use it as your Last "Emergency Standby Fund" .

(04-09-2012, 12:12 PM)wsreader Wrote: If contributions of 14% to 16% of one's income for most of one's work life is only for a supplement to one's retirement living income, how much more then, should one put aside for the main source of one's retirement living income?
Since it is only a supplement, it follows then that CPF LIFE is insufficient, even if it is described as provides for life?

Just some comments to challenge the mainstream thinking.

it is called minimum sum, not average sum.

if you want a better life but pay minimum sum, you are asking for impossible.

(04-09-2012, 11:02 AM)sgd Wrote: When it comes to investing many here in this forum have the most stringent and exacting requirements and demand the most transparent where their money is involve yet when it comes to our cpf monies and going on's behind them many choose to ignore, why? Maybe things are looking great now or their careers are at stake so not convienient to "rock the boat" ?

I choose not to believe because the whole thing doesn't add up. This started as a simple retirement scheme has now grown into complex instrument and the money seem to be getting further and further away why? Nobody can answer except an excuse "people living longer" and trying to justfy it that's the real conspiracy theory if you are looking for one.

Well, it is individual's opinion. I do not question things that I think it is fine. If I have to do that for everything that is fine, I will be a very busy person.
But, I do not mind reading others' opinions on why it is not fine and to see whether my thinking is wrong.
Till date, I have not read any good justification that will change my mind.

Just like I believe man had landed on Moon based on many anecdotal evidences and I had read many "arguments" and "proofs" that tried to disprove it and everyone of them is flawed.
So, in order to justify my belief, do I need to run my own experiment to prove that man had landed on moon?
It is up to naysayers to prove that it is a hoax.


In its information campaign against Apollo's "debunkers," NASA may have a potent ace up its sleeve, however. Its Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is now circling the moon with powerful cameras, snapping crisp pictures that could reveal Apollo 11's Eagle lander squatting on the moon's surface.

Then again, conspiracy theorists may just say NASA doctored the photos.

"Will the LRO's incredibly high-resolution images of the lunar surface, including, eventually, the Apollo landing sites, finally quell the lunacy of the Moon Hoax believers? Obviously it won't," writes astronomer Phil Plait in his blog on Discover magazine's Web site. "These true believers don't live in an evidence-based world."

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-17/tech/..._s=PM:TECH

CPF LIFE is actually an "Annuity Scheme" if i am not wrong. As such under certain "extreme conditions", you may be paid less then the amount promised or in the worse case may missed some payments or even may stopped payments altogether, if the "Annuity Scheme" collapsed due to whatever reasons. Horrible isn't it? But do you have a choice?

(04-09-2012, 12:29 PM)snowcap Wrote: CPF is a tool designed for the poor, to make sure they don't starve to death, or become a liability to the state.

Agree with you snowcap.
To the group of people for which CPF is designed for, it is more likely their main source of retirement living income.
My post was to highlight some official speak in some of the earlier posts and broaden perspectives for discussion. There is no need to adopt a stand that you are wrong, I am right.

One thing everyone seems to agree is, the money is not enough !

(04-09-2012, 01:19 PM)yeokiwi Wrote: In its information campaign against Apollo's "debunkers," NASA may have a potent ace up its sleeve, however. Its Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is now circling the moon with powerful cameras, snapping crisp pictures that could reveal Apollo 11's Eagle lander squatting on the moon's surface.

Then again, conspiracy theorists may just say NASA doctored the photos.

The main reason for not believing is that NASA has not returned to the moon even after decades of technology advancement. Interestingly, youtube has a video explaining why - the moon is filled with aliens, and they had warned the astronauts not to go back.

An indirect evidence of moon landing actually comes from the Russian for their keeping silence when they were the rival of USA in the Space Race.

(04-09-2012, 01:47 PM)wsreader Wrote:

(04-09-2012, 12:29 PM)snowcap Wrote: CPF is a tool designed for the poor, to make sure they don't starve to death, or become a liability to the state.

Agree with you snowcap.
To the group of people for which CPF is designed for, it is more likely their main source of retirement living income.
My post was to highlight some official speak in some of the earlier posts and broaden perspectives for discussion. There is no need to adopt a stand that you are wrong, I am right.

One thing everyone seems to agree is, the money is not enough !

Yes, money is never enough in life. It's the same for my investment fund. I wish i had much more, how much more? as much as possible...

(04-09-2012, 01:47 PM)wsreader Wrote:

(04-09-2012, 12:29 PM)snowcap Wrote: CPF is a tool designed for the poor, to make sure they don't starve to death, or become a liability to the state.

Agree with you snowcap.
To the group of people for which CPF is designed for, it is more likely their main source of retirement living income.
My post was to highlight some official speak in some of the earlier posts and broaden perspectives for discussion. There is no need to adopt a stand that you are wrong, I am right.

One thing everyone seems to agree is, the money is not enough !

Some people can actually live on $300 a month. House fully paid up, just 2-3 (simple homecooked) meals a day (breakfast can be slices of bread with kaya and a cup of kopi). EZlink has senior citizen discount.

I think the problem comes about when the govt designed CPF as a "bare minimum" to help people survive in retirement, but people expect "comforts" with their CPF. You want a car to ferry your grandchildren around? Save up and pay yourself. You want holidays (even to nearby Malaysia or Bintan)? Save up and pay yourself. Mismatch of expectations when people expect something the govt didn't intend CPF to provide for.

If CPF is not enough, and we wish for more, where will the extra money come from? It's either we increase the contribution by employer, employee, or we spend our children's money, or we increase taxes. None are quite acceptable to me. I rather save and invest my own money.

That's where i am coming at in my earlier statement. If you are dependent on CPF to survive 55-65, something is wrong somewhere.
Fixing CPF due to min. sum is not the answer if the current amount can only sustain very basics. Need to re-look your career and lifestyle.