CapitaLand CEO Calls Shoebox Apartments Inhuman: Southeast Asia

(27-05-2012, 07:59 PM)tanjm Wrote: Most of the people who talk about the rich and poor divide are, as far as I can make out, really talking about the divide between the rich and middle class.

Hmm... I was thinking more like the middle class and those low wage unskilled workers. This is why they(prof lim) are talking about giving a boost to those at the very low end.The very rich could not care less what's going on and the middle class are reasonably comfortable ie at least a 5 -room hdb to condos and cars etc. Its those low end that are struggling.

(27-05-2012, 08:41 PM)Jacmar Wrote:

(27-05-2012, 07:59 PM)tanjm Wrote: Most of the people who talk about the rich and poor divide are, as far as I can make out, really talking about the divide between the rich and middle class.

Hmm... I was thinking more like the middle class and those low wage unskilled workers. This is why they(prof lim) are talking about giving a boost to those at the very low end.The very rich could not care less what's going on and the middle class are reasonably comfortable ie at least a 5 -room hdb to condos and cars etc. Its those low end that are struggling.

my definition of middle class includes anyone who has a roof over their heads and enough discretionary income to spend on some things like eating out, holidays, entertainment or internet access. This qualifies everyone in this forum. If you have a 5 room/exec HDB and a car, you are at the upper end of this class.

I've seen the word "poor" abused many a time in internet forums by people who want to make an emotive statement.

(27-05-2012, 08:54 PM)tanjm Wrote:

(27-05-2012, 08:41 PM)Jacmar Wrote:

(27-05-2012, 07:59 PM)tanjm Wrote: Most of the people who talk about the rich and poor divide are, as far as I can make out, really talking about the divide between the rich and middle class.

Hmm... I was thinking more like the middle class and those low wage unskilled workers. This is why they(prof lim) are talking about giving a boost to those at the very low end.The very rich could not care less what's going on and the middle class are reasonably comfortable ie at least a 5 -room hdb to condos and cars etc. Its those low end that are struggling.

my definition of middle class includes anyone who has a roof over their heads and enough discretionary income to spend on some things like eating out, holidays, entertainment or internet access. This qualifies everyone in this forum. If you have a 5 room/exec HDB and a car, you are at the upper end of this class.

I've seen the word "poor" abused many a time in internet forums by people who want to make an emotive statement.

I think the poor now may be consider to be like the lowest of the lowest middle class in 1960 or 1970 who lived in 40-43 sq. m HDB one room flat. Now a million dollar can buy only a 650 sq. ft. to 750 sq. ft. freehold condo in some location. So isn't the scale of who is rich and who is poor changed a lot already.

(25-05-2012, 10:12 AM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(24-05-2012, 08:57 PM)natnavi Wrote: Bloomberg
CapitaLand CEO Calls Shoebox Apartments Inhuman: Southeast Asia
By Pooja Thakur and Haslinda Amin - May 24, 2012

.....

The trend of shoebox units may not be unique to the city- state, said Pratik Burman Ray, an analyst at HSBC Holdings Plc in Singapore. Philippine developers have built homes smaller than 20 square meters, while those in Thailand and Indonesia are less than 35 square meters, he said. In Hong Kong, apartments smaller than 500 square feet house two or three people, he said.

.....

To tag shoebox unit (about 50 square meter) as "in-human" is an overstatement. HongKong people already have taken it as part of their life. For small family of 2/3 people, it is definitely not a comfortable space, but not too bad after minor adjustment of their life style.

To compare with HDB 3-room flat which is around 60 square meter, it is not too much different in space.

But if the shoebox size goes to 20 or 35 square meter, then it is a bit too much.

I am sure my old 3 room HBD is more than 60 sqm. That is the size of the new ones that HDB will build. Mine has 2 bed room, a living room and a very spacious kitchen that I have yet to see in any of my friends' condo.

(27-05-2012, 10:48 PM)touzi Wrote: I am sure my old 3 room HBD is more than 60 sqm. That is the size of the new ones that HDB will build. Mine has 2 bed room, a living room and a very spacious kitchen that I have yet to see in any of my friends' condo.

Yes, older 3 rooms HDB is close to 70 sqm. It normally houses a family of 4 or more i assume.

With reducing family size to 3 (couple + 1 kid), it is far from "in-human" to live in a 50 sqm house, either condo or HDB.

For couple (2) or single (1), then it should be comfortable.

(25-05-2012, 10:01 AM)WolfT Wrote: It is also inhuman to pay so much for land and have to break record price in bedok and bishan.
It is also inhuman to take away e 2 biggest carpark in CBD.
It is also inhuman to get paid 20million a year.

I have the same feeling as well that he is one of driver of most singaporean misery. A Pot Calling the Kettle Black situation ?

Action speaks louder than words.


Cory

(28-05-2012, 11:49 AM)corydorus Wrote:

(25-05-2012, 10:01 AM)WolfT Wrote: It is also inhuman to pay so much for land and have to break record price in bedok and bishan.
It is also inhuman to take away e 2 biggest carpark in CBD.
It is also inhuman to get paid 20million a year.

I have the same feeling as well that he is one of driver of most singaporean misery. A Pot Calling the Kettle Black situation ?

Action speaks louder than words.


Cory

I tend to think Capitaland being a GLC has a national agenda behind it to push up S'pore land value.

(28-05-2012, 12:23 PM)kichialo Wrote:

(28-05-2012, 11:49 AM)corydorus Wrote:

(25-05-2012, 10:01 AM)WolfT Wrote: It is also inhuman to pay so much for land and have to break record price in bedok and bishan.
It is also inhuman to take away e 2 biggest carpark in CBD.
It is also inhuman to get paid 20million a year.

I have the same feeling as well that he is one of driver of most singaporean misery. A Pot Calling the Kettle Black situation ?

Action speaks louder than words.


Cory

I tend to think Capitaland being a GLC has a national agenda behind it to push up S'pore land value.

It is O. K. if the mass Singaporean's population gain in some way too. But really, the mass Singaporean's population is being squeezed like making lemonade juice for quenching their never-ending thirst (Papys & Associates).
Now than they start talking about building an "inclusive society".??? Since when.........???..... they really think about us???

I'm surprised that people are bothered by what Liew Mun Leong had said. Obviously, shoebox units have their own selling points that attracts certain type of buyers. Whether or not these buyers will make money on their shoebox units is anyone's guess.

I saw this article related to shoe-box, not in Singapore, but in US

Similar argument as in Singapore
Pros : provide a cheaper option for single residents
Cons : would increase population density, strain city services

http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC1209...apartments

Lawmakers here have postponed voting on a proposal that would make the city home to some of the smallest apartments in the country.

The city's Board of Supervisors had yesterday been expected to consider a building code change to allow apartments as small as 220 sq ft, or 20.4 sq m. Current regulations require apartment living rooms alone to be that size.

The tiny, efficient units would include a bathroom, kitchen and closet.

* more detail, please refer to the link above *