Just wondering are u a new holder who have yet to attend any N Toyo and SAH meeting?
If so, I strongly urged you to tap on other veteran experiences.
Shareholder power while good may not be effective if substantial shareholders are firmly in control.
Hence your fantastic analysis may not really a thing should controlling shareholders decided not to do a thing.
In addition, with the widely reported SAH saga during the sales process, it really appears that N Toyo have very little control in SAH affairs notwithstanding they control a substantial stake. Note that they have a few of their nominated directors quitting SAH during the sales process - ie something could be amissed and really beyond N Toyo's control.
A lot of things appeared simple on paper but in real life especially in business, it is not to be. Just look at China Sky, now every holder can really look into a clear blue sky with despair. Just be careful
(10-04-2012, 10:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: Shareholders should clamour for a full payout by SAH without any further delay...
There is no valid reason why SAH should retain 50% of the sales proceed and whittle it away ..
(10-04-2012, 07:56 PM)ken Wrote: Well, I think they are not going to reveal anything.
Anything sensitive in nature will have to go through SGX.
In the meantime, it would be interesting to note that
Shanghai Asia is also holding their AGM, end of the month.
There should be a lot of questions, but few or no answers........ as usual.
Just wondering are u a new holder who have yet to attend any N Toyo and SAH meeting?
If so, I strongly urged you to tap on other veteran experiences.
Shareholder power while good may not be effective if substantial shareholders are firmly in control.
Hence your fantastic analysis may not really a thing should controlling shareholders decided not to do a thing.
In addition, with the widely reported SAH saga during the sales process, it really appears that N Toyo have very little control in SAH affairs notwithstanding they control a substantial stake. Note that they have a few of their nominated directors quitting SAH during the sales process - ie something could be amissed and really beyond N Toyo's control.
A lot of things appeared simple on paper but in real life especially in business, it is not to be. Just look at China Sky, now every holder can really look into a clear blue sky with despair. Just be careful
(10-04-2012, 10:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: Shareholders should clamour for a full payout by SAH without any further delay...
There is no valid reason why SAH should retain 50% of the sales proceed and whittle it away ..
(10-04-2012, 07:56 PM)ken Wrote: Well, I think they are not going to reveal anything.
Anything sensitive in nature will have to go through SGX.
In the meantime, it would be interesting to note that
Shanghai Asia is also holding their AGM, end of the month.
There should be a lot of questions, but few or no answers........ as usual.
I certainly think that, to put it mildly, is quite mysterious. Do not forget, Senior Yen still has his son, Gary Yen, in the board of SAH. People in SAH and NT are of the same feather. Both have got their Chairman, Mr Cambridge departed suddenly. SAH CFO also left.
I certainly do not think highly for the group of people behind SAH and NT.
11-04-2012, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2012, 04:55 PM by Curiousparty.)
The value proposition of NT to Amcor could be surmised to be as follows:-
Foothold and Niche Leadership in Cigarette Packaging Business plus Geographical diversification into emerging markets - especially Vietnam
With the political liberalization of Myanmar, the regional markets will stand to gain
*****
SYDNEY, March 09 (Fitch) Fitch Ratings says that Australia-based
Amcor Limited's acquisition of Aperio group (Aperio) will have no impact on the former's 'BBB' rating (Stable Outlook). This reflects the agency's expectation that the increase in leverage associated with the acquisition will be manageable within Amcor's rating and that Aperio will contribute positively to Amcor's flexible packaging operations in Asia.
Amcor announced yesterday that it had reached an agreement to acquire Aperio for AUD238m. The transaction is subject to regulatory approval. Aperio is a flexible packaging business that caters to Asia Pacific.
Fitch estimates that a 100% debt-funded acquisition with near break-even earnings from Aperio as well as AUD25m in cash costs to achieve synergies will result in Amcor's peak forward-looking adjusted debt to EBITDAR remaining at below 2.5x, which is below the current negative rating guideline of 3x.
"Amcor's track record in the integration of flexible packaging businesses is strong - the first half 2012 results are a case in point," said Johann Kenny, Director in Fitch's Corporate rating team. This acquisition provides a complimentary Asian-centric business that will augment the successfully integrated Alcan Packaging business."
Aperio will marginally improve Amcor's quality of revenues by increasing the share of more stable income streams from the flexible packaging business by 2% to 52%. The transaction will also improve the geographical diversification of flexible packaging business revenues by increasing the contribution of emerging markets to 16% from 14%.
(11-04-2012, 08:45 AM)Underdogger Wrote: Would like to seek comments from forumers on the following:-
Yes, we understand that it is merely playing a supporting role to BAT, etc.
But what exactly is the value proposition of New Toyo?
these are the top 10 packaging companies in the world.
In terms of product proximity, only Amcor has the closest match to New Toyo in terms of cigarette packaging...
1. Tetra Pak
2. Amcor
3. Crown Holdings
4. Toyo Seikan Group
5. Rexam
6. Ball Corporation
7. Owens-Illinois
8. Reynolds Group Holdings
9. Saint-Gobain (Verallia)
10. Alpla-Werke Alwin Lehner GmbH & Co KG
[I am not here to promote any stocks. Please always do your own research before embarking on any investment decision. I will not be liable for any of your own decisions. Your use of any information or materials is entirely at your own risk. It is your responsibility to ensure that any products, services or information meet your specific requirements. I do not produce material which meets the objectives of any specific financial and risk profile of investors.]
Wah this analysis is becoming a global one. May I know, how much does cigarette packaging made up of Amcor's earnings?
Aperio is a flexible packaging company. Is N Toyo is flexible packaging?
Why did Amcor sell out its stake in Tien Wah years ago and why would they want to buy back now?
Would DCF be a better valuation yardstick for BAT sale and buyback deal given its limited contract duration?
(11-04-2012, 03:59 PM)Curiousparty Wrote: The value proposition of NT to Amcor could be surmised to be as follows:-
Foothold and Niche Leadership in Cigarette Packaging Business plus Geographical diversification into emerging markets - especially Vietnam
With the political liberalization of Myanmar, the regional markets will stand to gain
*****
SYDNEY, March 09 (Fitch) Fitch Ratings says that Australia-based
Amcor Limited's acquisition of Aperio group (Aperio) will have no impact on the former's 'BBB' rating (Stable Outlook). This reflects the agency's expectation that the increase in leverage associated with the acquisition will be manageable within Amcor's rating and that Aperio will contribute positively to Amcor's flexible packaging operations in Asia.
Amcor announced yesterday that it had reached an agreement to acquire Aperio for AUD238m. The transaction is subject to regulatory approval. Aperio is a flexible packaging business that caters to Asia Pacific.
Fitch estimates that a 100% debt-funded acquisition with near break-even earnings from Aperio as well as AUD25m in cash costs to achieve synergies will result in Amcor's peak forward-looking adjusted debt to EBITDAR remaining at below 2.5x, which is below the current negative rating guideline of 3x.
"Amcor's track record in the integration of flexible packaging businesses is strong - the first half 2012 results are a case in point," said Johann Kenny, Director in Fitch's Corporate rating team. This acquisition provides a complimentary Asian-centric business that will augment the successfully integrated Alcan Packaging business."
Aperio will marginally improve Amcor's quality of revenues by increasing the share of more stable income streams from the flexible packaging business by 2% to 52%. The transaction will also improve the geographical diversification of flexible packaging business revenues by increasing the contribution of emerging markets to 16% from 14%.
(11-04-2012, 08:45 AM)Underdogger Wrote: Would like to seek comments from forumers on the following:-
Yes, we understand that it is merely playing a supporting role to BAT, etc.
But what exactly is the value proposition of New Toyo?
these are the top 10 packaging companies in the world.
In terms of product proximity, only Amcor has the closest match to New Toyo in terms of cigarette packaging...
1. Tetra Pak
2. Amcor
3. Crown Holdings
4. Toyo Seikan Group
5. Rexam
6. Ball Corporation
7. Owens-Illinois
8. Reynolds Group Holdings
9. Saint-Gobain (Verallia)
10. Alpla-Werke Alwin Lehner GmbH & Co KG
11-04-2012, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2012, 11:06 PM by Underdogger.)
SAH has reiterated that it will distribute up to 50% of the sales proceeds upon completion of the deal.
So shareholders should not be unduly worried that money will be siphoned away
With the estimated 50mil RMB gain from the asset sales, we can expect SAH's NAV to be revalued upwards to about 19.7 cents.
So New Toyo (if full payout) will get 13.4 cents.
But not forgetting that New Toyo's FY11 EBITDA (without SAH) = $39mil, which is already higher than FY10 EBITDA with SAH ($36mil).
So any additional payout from SAH's deal is a bonus or steal
****
SUBSEQUENT EVENT
The Transaction, comprising the SWP Transaction and the GTPL Transaction, made progress subsequent to the
year ended 31 December 2011.
The China Securities Regulatory Commission granted approval of the SWP Transaction on 18 January 2012.
Subsequently, the Jiangsu provincial government issued certificates of approval on the transfer of SACPL’s equity
interest in JZAI on 19 January 2012 and on the transfer of SACPL’s equity interest in JZLM on 3 February 2012.
SACPL has fulfilled all conditions precedent to complete the SWP Transaction. The sales proceeds of RMB750
million were transferred by SWP to a designated escrow account with Bank of China. The GTPL Transaction,
conditional upon completion of the SWP Transaction, has also been substantially completed.
The preliminary estimate is that the Group will realise a net gain of approximately RMB50 million on the Transaction.
The Company intends to distribute up to 50% of the net proceeds of the Transaction upon completion, with the
distribution to be by way of dividend, capital reduction or such other manner as the Board shall conclude at a later
stage; and in respect of the remaining 50% (or more) of the net proceeds of the Transaction, the Company will
assess and explore various investment options to seek viable business opportunities in other areas of business.
Be very conservative with Chinese companies. I continued to maintain that 50% retainer at SAH should not be even considered as an eventual payout until you finally see the money. The only lucky thing is SAH is a Singapore incorporated company and BOD have to be extremely careful when handling corporate moves.
(11-04-2012, 07:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: SAH has reiterated that it will distribute up to 50% of the sales proceeds upon completion of the deal.
So shareholders should not be unduly worried that money will be siphoned away
With the estimated 50mil RMB gain from the asset sales, we can expect SAH's NAV to be revalued upwards to about 19.7 cents.
So New Toyo (if full payout) will get 13.4 cents.
But not forgetting that New Toyo's FY11 EBITDA (without SAH) = $39mil, which is already higher than FY10 EBITDA with SAH ($36mil).
So any additional payout from SAH's deal is a bonus or steal
****
SUBSEQUENT EVENT
The Transaction, comprising the SWP Transaction and the GTPL Transaction, made progress subsequent to the
year ended 31 December 2011.
The China Securities Regulatory Commission granted approval of the SWP Transaction on 18 January 2012.
Subsequently, the Jiangsu provincial government issued certificates of approval on the transfer of SACPL’s equity
interest in JZAI on 19 January 2012 and on the transfer of SACPL’s equity interest in JZLM on 3 February 2012.
SACPL has fulfilled all conditions precedent to complete the SWP Transaction. The sales proceeds of RMB750
million were transferred by SWP to a designated escrow account with Bank of China. The GTPL Transaction,
conditional upon completion of the SWP Transaction, has also been substantially completed.
The preliminary estimate is that the Group will realise a net gain of approximately RMB50 million on the Transaction.
The Company intends to distribute up to 50% of the net proceeds of the Transaction upon completion, with the
distribution to be by way of dividend, capital reduction or such other manner as the Board shall conclude at a later
stage; and in respect of the remaining 50% (or more) of the net proceeds of the Transaction, the Company will
assess and explore various investment options to seek viable business opportunities in other areas of business.
(11-04-2012, 11:24 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: Be very conservative with Chinese companies. I continued to maintain that 50% retainer at SAH should not be even considered as an eventual payout until you finally see the money. The only lucky thing is SAH is a Singapore incorporated company and BOD have to be extremely careful when handling corporate moves.
(11-04-2012, 07:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: SAH has reiterated that it will distribute up to 50% of the sales proceeds upon completion of the deal.
So shareholders should not be unduly worried that money will be siphoned away
With the estimated 50mil RMB gain from the asset sales, we can expect SAH's NAV to be revalued upwards to about 19.7 cents.
So New Toyo (if full payout) will get 13.4 cents.
But not forgetting that New Toyo's FY11 EBITDA (without SAH) = $39mil, which is already higher than FY10 EBITDA with SAH ($36mil).
So any additional payout from SAH's deal is a bonus or steal
****
SUBSEQUENT EVENT
The Transaction, comprising the SWP Transaction and the GTPL Transaction, made progress subsequent to the
year ended 31 December 2011.
The China Securities Regulatory Commission granted approval of the SWP Transaction on 18 January 2012.
Subsequently, the Jiangsu provincial government issued certificates of approval on the transfer of SACPL’s equity
interest in JZAI on 19 January 2012 and on the transfer of SACPL’s equity interest in JZLM on 3 February 2012.
SACPL has fulfilled all conditions precedent to complete the SWP Transaction. The sales proceeds of RMB750
million were transferred by SWP to a designated escrow account with Bank of China. The GTPL Transaction,
conditional upon completion of the SWP Transaction, has also been substantially completed.
The preliminary estimate is that the Group will realise a net gain of approximately RMB50 million on the Transaction.
The Company intends to distribute up to 50% of the net proceeds of the Transaction upon completion, with the
distribution to be by way of dividend, capital reduction or such other manner as the Board shall conclude at a later
stage; and in respect of the remaining 50% (or more) of the net proceeds of the Transaction, the Company will
assess and explore various investment options to seek viable business opportunities in other areas of business.
Calling all Supporters of NEW TOYO, Pls attend AGM and press ID and CEO what they intend to do with the proceeds. Its clear the Co. is undervalued and what the directors want to do about improving valuation of the Co. We should not let them get away with brushing aside issue, and how NT intend to capitalize on SAH shell if 50% of the fund remain - to do what? NT is paying snr. Yen and we thus as shldrs should put press on him to be fair as such payment is coming out of Co. account. It is not just the fruit of his work, its also the sharing of our investment return.
Homepage
PR Newswire
