Wheelock Properties

(15-04-2017, 11:08 PM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(15-04-2017, 07:43 PM)Scg8866t Wrote:

(15-04-2017, 10:02 AM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(28-02-2017, 05:44 PM)Scg8866t Wrote: http://repository.shareinvestor.com/rpt_...filename/1

Wheelock is completely debtless now. Their China developement is also progressing very well(631 of 657 launched units sold).
471,946,000 cash in coffeurs.

Very strong forth quarter operating cashflow due to depreciation from their wheelock place and scott square asset.

Final Dividend remain at 6cts. Wheelock Place 96% occupancy, Scott square 95% occupancy.

FYI Wheelock Properties doesn't depreciate these 2 properties.

Sorry what i meant was a neg change in fair value for these two investment properties.

Anyway there is no cash involved in fair value of investment properties. Just presentation in cash flow statement. Better cash flow due changes in working capital. Turning inventories into cash without much profit.

Investment properties are measured at cost on initial recognition and subsequently at fair value with any changes therein recognised in profit or loss. 

 
The Group’s Investment Properties were appraised by independent professional valuers. Wheelock Place was revalued from $912 million to $876 million and Scotts Square Retail was revalued from $234 million to $216 million. Changes in fair value of $56 million, including improvement works to investment properties of $2 million (2015: $31 million) was accounted for under other operating expenses.
 
Subsequent change in fair value is recognized in PnL.
PBT (Profit before tax) is affected by fair value change.
Amount of tax payable is affected by PBT.
Tax is paid with CASH.
CASH level is affected by amount of tax payable.
Hence, CASH level is affected by fair value change of investment properties.
CASH is involved.    
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(16-04-2017, 09:59 AM)Boon Wrote:

(15-04-2017, 11:08 PM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(15-04-2017, 07:43 PM)Scg8866t Wrote:

(15-04-2017, 10:02 AM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(28-02-2017, 05:44 PM)Scg8866t Wrote: http://repository.shareinvestor.com/rpt_...filename/1

Wheelock is completely debtless now. Their China developement is also progressing very well(631 of 657 launched units sold).
471,946,000 cash in coffeurs.

Very strong forth quarter operating cashflow due to depreciation from their wheelock place and scott square asset.

Final Dividend remain at 6cts. Wheelock Place 96% occupancy, Scott square 95% occupancy.

FYI Wheelock Properties doesn't depreciate these 2 properties.

Sorry what i meant was a neg change in fair value for these two investment properties.

Anyway there is no cash involved in fair value of investment properties. Just presentation in cash flow statement. Better cash flow due changes in working capital. Turning inventories into cash without much profit.

Investment properties are measured at cost on initial recognition and subsequently at fair value with any changes therein recognised in profit or loss. 

 
The Group’s Investment Properties were appraised by independent professional valuers. Wheelock Place was revalued from $912 million to $876 million and Scotts Square Retail was revalued from $234 million to $216 million. Changes in fair value of $56 million, including improvement works to investment properties of $2 million (2015: $31 million) was accounted for under other operating expenses.
 
Subsequent change in fair value is recognized in PnL.
PBT (Profit before tax) is affected by fair value change.
Amount of tax payable is affected by PBT.
Tax is paid with CASH.
CASH level is affected by amount of tax payable.
Hence, CASH level is affected by fair value change of investment properties.
CASH is involved.    
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

P&l ie income statement is not cash flow. It is base on accrual. Especially property company. Unless you are talking about the improvement work, there is zero cash impact. Is the company able to use changes in fair value of investment property to pay salaries, bank loans or dividends?

(16-04-2017, 09:11 PM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(16-04-2017, 09:59 AM)Boon Wrote: Investment properties are measured at cost on initial recognition and subsequently at fair value with any changes therein recognised in profit or loss. 

 
The Group’s Investment Properties were appraised by independent professional valuers. Wheelock Place was revalued from $912 million to $876 million and Scotts Square Retail was revalued from $234 million to $216 million. Changes in fair value of $56 million, including improvement works to investment properties of $2 million (2015: $31 million) was accounted for under other operating expenses.
 
Subsequent change in fair value is recognized in PnL.
PBT (Profit before tax) is affected by fair value change.
Amount of tax payable is affected by PBT.
Tax is paid with CASH.
CASH level is affected by amount of tax payable.
Hence, CASH level is affected by fair value change of investment properties.
CASH is involved.    
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

P&l ie income statement is not cash flow. It is base on accrual. Especially property company. Unless you are talking about the improvement work, there is zero cash impact. Is the company able to use changes in fair value of investment property to pay salaries, bank loans or dividends?

Well, i am not an accountant though. But i do remember that revaluation gains or losses, does affect the amount of taxes to be paid. But these taxes are generally considered "deferred" - so revaluation losses create deferred tax assets (to offset taxes when asset is sold in future at the valuation), while revaluation gains create deferred tax liabilities (to be paid when asset is sold in future at the valuation). So cash is involved in the future, but existing cash flow (before asset is sold) is not.

(17-04-2017, 04:16 PM)weijian Wrote:

(16-04-2017, 09:11 PM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(16-04-2017, 09:59 AM)Boon Wrote: Investment properties are measured at cost on initial recognition and subsequently at fair value with any changes therein recognised in profit or loss. 

 
The Group’s Investment Properties were appraised by independent professional valuers. Wheelock Place was revalued from $912 million to $876 million and Scotts Square Retail was revalued from $234 million to $216 million. Changes in fair value of $56 million, including improvement works to investment properties of $2 million (2015: $31 million) was accounted for under other operating expenses.
 
Subsequent change in fair value is recognized in PnL.
PBT (Profit before tax) is affected by fair value change.
Amount of tax payable is affected by PBT.
Tax is paid with CASH.
CASH level is affected by amount of tax payable.
Hence, CASH level is affected by fair value change of investment properties.
CASH is involved.    
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

P&l ie income statement is not cash flow. It is base on accrual. Especially property company. Unless you are talking about the improvement work, there is zero cash impact. Is the company able to use changes in fair value of investment property to pay salaries, bank loans or dividends?

Well, i am not an accountant though. But i do remember that revaluation gains or losses, does affect the amount of taxes to be paid. But these taxes are generally considered "deferred" - so revaluation losses create deferred tax assets (to offset taxes when asset is sold in future at the valuation), while revaluation gains create deferred tax liabilities (to be paid when asset is sold in future at the valuation). So cash is involved in the future, but existing cash flow (before asset is sold) is not.

Change in Fair Value of Investment Properties recognized in PnL:
FY2015 = - 30.892 m
FY2016 = - 55.710 m
 
Assuming effective tax rate of 17%
=> implied Deferred Tax Assets for FY2015 = + 5.252 m
=> implied Deferred Tax Assets for FY2016 = + 9.471 m
 
Balance of Deferred Tax Liabilities/(assets) for Investment Properties portion (page 123 of AR2016):
FY2015= 11.401 m  (liabilities)
FY2016= 11.430 m  (liabilities)
 
Question:
Why balance of DTL/A remains flat while Fair Value has decreased ~  - 86.6 m with implied DTA of ~ + 14.7m
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(17-04-2017, 04:16 PM)weijian Wrote:

(16-04-2017, 09:11 PM)donmihaihai Wrote:

(16-04-2017, 09:59 AM)Boon Wrote: Investment properties are measured at cost on initial recognition and subsequently at fair value with any changes therein recognised in profit or loss. 

 
The Group’s Investment Properties were appraised by independent professional valuers. Wheelock Place was revalued from $912 million to $876 million and Scotts Square Retail was revalued from $234 million to $216 million. Changes in fair value of $56 million, including improvement works to investment properties of $2 million (2015: $31 million) was accounted for under other operating expenses.
 
Subsequent change in fair value is recognized in PnL.
PBT (Profit before tax) is affected by fair value change.
Amount of tax payable is affected by PBT.
Tax is paid with CASH.
CASH level is affected by amount of tax payable.
Hence, CASH level is affected by fair value change of investment properties.
CASH is involved.    
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

P&l ie income statement is not cash flow. It is base on accrual. Especially property company. Unless you are talking about the improvement work, there is zero cash impact. Is the company able to use changes in fair value of investment property to pay salaries, bank loans or dividends?

Well, i am not an accountant though. But i do remember that revaluation gains or losses, does affect the amount of taxes to be paid. But these taxes are generally considered "deferred" - so revaluation losses create deferred tax assets (to offset taxes when asset is sold in future at the valuation), while revaluation gains create deferred tax liabilities (to be paid when asset is sold in future at the valuation). So cash is involved in the future, but existing cash flow (before asset is sold) is not.

Property companies complaint like crazy and Accounting standard changed few years back and Deferred tax liabilities no longer apply. Exact details I don't remember. 

Anyway tax is abit diff. Some say specialise. If one is not good at accounting and tax, it is quite hard to understand what is presented in AR. More so if the company operate in many countries.

https://www.edgeprop.sg/content/bulk-pur...ts-374-mil

Not sure if this SGD$37m purchase for 20 1-bedder at Scotts Square would better its Q2 results, or be credited during the Q3 results.
Sales was dated 20 Jun, but money might only be credited in Q3?
Else if the prices drops, will head in to collect more. : P

(06-08-2017, 12:30 PM)tealeaves Wrote: https://www.edgeprop.sg/content/bulk-pur...ts-374-mil

Not sure if this SGD$37m purchase for 20 1-bedder at Scotts Square would better its Q2 results, or be credited during the Q3 results.
Sales was dated 20 Jun, but money might only be credited in Q3?
Else if the prices drops, will head in to collect more. : P

Nice, wheelock is one of my fav stock. Only sgx developer now that is completely debtless and on the road to 1bil sgd in cash. If parent has no plans to privatize, i hope they can spend their cash wisely, maybe buying liat tower from bonvest to synthegize with wheelock place to increase their frontage etc. If not, they would be better off paying the bulk of cash back to us shareholdes as a special div.

https://www.mingtiandi.com/real-estate/p...ront-site/

No further details provided though.

Just when I was hoping Wheelock Properties would distribute the $1bil sgd in cash that it will have on its balance sheet soon.. oh well.

^^ Not sure if it refers to Wheelock Properties Singapore Ltd

(17-11-2017, 02:29 PM)specuvestor Wrote: ^^ Not sure if it refers to Wheelock Properties Singapore Ltd

Should be the parent company Wheelock Properties (Hong Kong) Limited