China Sunsine Chemicals Holdings

(09-08-2017, 06:03 PM)YMPL Wrote: It is either valuebuddies.com, or weijian is significant enough for the time of 3 IDs. Good job for weijian and valuebuddies.com.

We should be proud of been part of valuebuddies.com.

Weijian, you have my respect for 1) apologising and 2) informing fellow forumers know that you had modified your previous posts and apologised.

This episode is not a good thing for investment forums like valuebuddies and its forumers. I think more compnies and its management and board of directors will most likely pay more attention to forums and social platforms and take actions for postings that damage their reputation.

Dr Goh Keng Swee is a very wise man, we should learn from him. When he does something, he would not have done it rashly.

The actions taken is alarming.

I believe this further demonstrates the importance of a platform to share information.

Hi all, a few things for clarification and my thoughts/replies:

(1) The meeting was cordial and no "lawyer letter" or any sort was mentioned.

(2) @HitandRun, the meeting was arranged at hustle and wasn't actually an "analyst briefing". Retrospectively, you wouldn't want to invite more OPMI shareholders who will most probably stand with the 3 IDs (1 lawyer and 2 auditors) against 1 lone person!

(3) I didn't ask how they manage to pick up my post. My educated guess is that more than a few shareholders (and have direct access to them) in this forum bought this up to Benny Lim. At least 1 of the IDs (I can't remember who) confessed that they don't go to forums or blog of any sort.

(4) Take note that i had offered a personal apology for the "wording", but my opinion hasn't changed. You could google Benny Lim on Bloomberg to check out his full CV. To his full credit, he has mentioned to me that as ID, he is ready to stand up to scrutiny and i applaud him for that.

(5) It is not CSC's Mgt, but its BOD that is in consideration here. One thing i do find out of the norm would be Benny Lim inviting the other 2 local IDs into the call - i would infer that there is close communication/transparency between the working IDs of CSC based on this observation.

(6) @piaopiao, i am glad to get your respect. On the contrary, i believe this is a good thing for investment forums like valuebuddies and its forumers - (1) This demonstrates the importance of using facts and thinking twice before posting. One needs to be ready to back their own posts. This is 1 of the attributes that will differentiate valuebuddies against the other sharing platforms. (2) As forumer Karlmarx mentioned, the importance of a platorm to share info.

(09-08-2017, 09:48 PM)weijian Wrote: Hi all, a few things for clarification and my thoughts/replies:

(2) @HitandRun, the meeting was arranged at hustle and wasn't actually an "analyst briefing". Retrospectively, you wouldn't want to invite more OPMI shareholders who will most probably stand with the 3 IDs (1 lawyer and 2 auditors) against 1 lone person!

Bro

I'm sorry but I wasn't referring to this meeting. 

What I meant was that since they have demonstrated the willingness to engage small investors, we should strike the iron is hot and request that they invite some valuebuddies to their next analysts' briefing. 

(09-08-2017, 10:12 PM)HitandRun Wrote:

(09-08-2017, 09:48 PM)weijian Wrote: Hi all, a few things for clarification and my thoughts/replies:

(2) @HitandRun, the meeting was arranged at hustle and wasn't actually an "analyst briefing". Retrospectively, you wouldn't want to invite more OPMI shareholders who will most probably stand with the 3 IDs (1 lawyer and 2 auditors) against 1 lone person!

Bro

I'm sorry but I wasn't referring to this meeting. 

What I meant was that since they have demonstrated the willingness to engage small investors, we should strike the iron is hot and request that they invite some valuebuddies to their next analysts' briefing. 

HitandRun

Sunsine has been inviting investors to attend results briefing. The latest was held on 28 July 2017:

DATE OF ANNOUNCEMENT OF FINANCIAL RESULTS FOR THE SECOND QUARTER AND HALF YEAR ENDED 30 JUNE 2017 AND RESULTS BRIEFING 

SINGAPORE, 17 July 2017 - The Board of Directors of China Sunsine Chemical Holdings Ltd. (“China Sunsine” or the “Company”) wishes to inform that the Company will release its financial results for the second quarter and half year ended 30 June 2017 on Thursday, 27 July 2017. The Company will also hold a results briefing on Friday, 28 July 2017. The Board would like to take this opportunity to celebrate China Sunsine’s 10th Listing Anniversary on the Singapore Exchange (“SGX”) Main Board, on the same day as the results briefing. The timing and venue are listed as follows: 
Event : 10th Listing Anniversary Celebration on the SGX Main Board & 2Q2017 Results 
Briefing Venue : Singapore Exchange, 2 Shenton Way, #02-02 SGX Centre 1 Auditorium, Singapore 068804 
Date & Time : 28 July 2017, 3.00 pm All shareholders, investors, analysts and media partners are welcomed to join us at this event. 
Please RSVP with name, IC number and contact number to jennie@ChinaSunsine.com by 25 July 2017. Please bring along your identification card for registration on the day of the event. 
Registration will begin at 2.30 pm. Seating is on a first-come first-served basis, and subject to availability. -

Hi Young Investor

My impression is that the event was held for the purpose of celebrating the 10th anniversary but I do not follow the company's activities closely. 

If they do invite lay investors to their analysts' briefing on a regular basis, kudos to them.

(24-07-2017, 01:54 PM)UBluechipfan Wrote: Thanks YI and WJ. It's clear now the money won't be treated as part of P/L. So the equity will be beef up, perhaps under 'retained' cash. Technically, they still can use the treasury money to pay extra dividend. From the current FY's income, they just need to 'retain' less cash and put aside the equivalent amount of money (from the sale of treasury shares) and payout the same amount as dividend. Can?

(24-07-2017, 03:56 PM)specuvestor Wrote: I too am doubtful that one can pay dividend out of reserves. Otherwise reval reserves, including FX, can be used to pay out. Capital reduction maybe possible, because the court has to be satisfied. But I don't recall seeing it before, maybe other VB with experience can quote an example.

We had this debate regarding whether treasury share profit can be paid as dividends. Coincidentally we see tha in another thread in our exploration of the Companies Act:

"1C) Any gains derived by the company from the sale or disposal of treasury shares shall not be payable as dividends to the shareholders of the company."
https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-7716...#pid141928

I think it is quite clear

(13-08-2017, 10:36 PM)specuvestor Wrote:

(24-07-2017, 01:54 PM)UBluechipfan Wrote: Thanks YI and WJ. It's clear now the money won't be treated as part of P/L. So the equity will be beef up, perhaps under 'retained' cash. Technically, they still can use the treasury money to pay extra dividend. From the current FY's income, they just need to 'retain' less cash and put aside the equivalent amount of money (from the sale of treasury shares) and payout the same amount as dividend. Can?

(24-07-2017, 03:56 PM)specuvestor Wrote: I too am doubtful that one can pay dividend out of reserves. Otherwise reval reserves, including FX, can be used to pay out. Capital reduction maybe possible, because the court has to be satisfied. But I don't recall seeing it before, maybe other VB with experience can quote an example.

We had this debate regarding whether treasury share profit can be paid as dividends. Coincidentally we see tha in another thread in our exploration of the Companies Act:

"1C) Any gains derived by the company from the sale or disposal of treasury shares shall not be payable as dividends to the shareholders of the company."
https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-7716...#pid141928

I think it is quite clear

Specuvestor,

There is cash inflow from the sale of treasury shares. How can Sunsine distribute some or all of the cash to the shareholders?

There is cash inflow from sale of goods and service. How does company decide how much to distribute? You could theoretically distribute all and close shop. That's where accounting and classification comes in.

It seems to me, logically correctly, that profit or loss from treasury treasury shares is not deemed as usual course of business.

(14-08-2017, 03:16 PM)specuvestor Wrote: There is cash inflow from sale of goods and service. How does company decide how much to distribute? You could theoretically distribute all and close shop. That's where accounting and classification comes in.

It seems to me, logically correctly, that profit or loss from treasury treasury shares is not deemed as usual course of business.

There is a difference between profit and cash. Companies Act says cannot declare dividends from the profit of sale of treasury shares.

The profit of China Sunsine, the listco in Singapore, can also include dividend income from its subsidiaries. To distribute the cash in Singapore arising from the sale of treasury shares as dividends, China Sunsine can ask its subsidiaries to declare (more) dividends to increase its profits.

I dont know if Chinese companies can declare dividends from their retained earnings and other reserves or must dividends come from only current year profits.