China Sunsine Chemicals Holdings

(24-07-2017, 03:56 PM)specuvestor Wrote: I too am doubtful that one can pay dividend out of reserves. Otherwise reval reserves, including FX, can be used to pay out. Capital reduction maybe possible, because the court has to be satisfied. But I don't recall seeing it before, maybe other VB with experience can quote an example.

(01-08-2017, 11:40 AM)Bluechipfan Wrote: Honestly I don't know what you are driving at. Initially you made reference to the LD, Mr Benny and tried to link the 2 (Ziwo and Sunsine). Now in your reply to budgetier are you saying Sunsine cook it's book because that's the impression I get? Do you mind clarify further?

Weijian,


You are a moderator too.

Extract from guidelines of Valuebuddies below:

 Hi all, please read the following before posting.

This is to ensure that Buddies on the forum know the boundaries of what should or should not be posted for their own protection against potentially libelous claims. As a free to join forum, it is not in our best interest to defend any claims hence it would be wise to avoid them.

Our guidelines that follow are by no means legal advice and should not be taken as such; they are meant to be followed so that the forum may remain a conducive environment for the sharing of opinions, thoughts and information regarding Investing.

Guidelines on Posting
- No personal attacks, name-calling or baseless accusations with regards to one's character.
- Opinions can be made but must be based on facts and must be fair to reasonable man.

With the benefit of hindsight, we all know that in order to attract listing, sgx welcome a lot of s-chips sometime back. Many people suffered losses, maybe even weijian, therefore the generally negative disposition against s-chips. I believe some has picked themselves up and with the valuable experience learned, they are able to tell a good s-chip apart from the bad one and profit from their future investment including from s-chips. On the other hand, some will swear off s-chips and won't touch it with 7 foot pole. I think subconsciously they wish to see all s-chips fail!

To each his own but the latter group is more likely to lose out when come to objective evaluation of a security. For one, they will never profit from a good s-chip even one is present at one's doorstep. Again, to each his own but this group also tend to express their negative view in forum and tend to taint all s-chips with the same brush. I have learned to assess all viewpoints objectively and looking for source to verify all points before investing. I think there are good s-chips and in reality, non s-chips can be worse than s-chips too such as the ABL saga. So I don't understand the linkage between Ziwo and Sunsine.

Earlier Bluechipfan had pointed out a disconnect in my first post - i have acknowledged the disconnect and promptly updated it. Lets stop this scrutiny of my posts and focus on Sunsine. Further discussion about it, is only going to hijack the thread and make it out of topic. I have made my points after repeated requests from a few forumers. It sounds like a mini witch hunt may be on going. If you are genuinely asking for a reply, then please respect the person who takes time to reply u.

There is no money to be earned by winning an online argument. A company will not become XXX just because someone think it is XXX and say so. Only if the facts are XXX, then it becomes XXX. Similarly as what Boon has done in the BW thread - he has been largely stating observations/opinions based on facts - the only difference is that now they are more critical, compared to favorable in the previous 4yrs. I find it amusing that several vested parties have to state down their reasons (again and again) for been long on BW. It almost seems like they are writing it down for the sake of assuring themselves! or they have self appointed themselves to become (foc) defenders of the company!

If there is anything inappropriate about my posts, other VB moderators will come in. Fellow moderators have no vested relationship with each other and we dont practise "ownself check ownself" over here.

I have made my case here and got myself out of topic with regards to this thread. I risk doing so (been Moderator, u gonna practise more than u preach) because i think VB.com should differentiate itself not just from the quality of posts, but also the temperament of each contributor. Sometimes, i find we can work to improve our temperament.

This will be my last post on this matter.

Weijian,

You may firmly believe your posts on Sunsine's chairman and ID Benny Lim are appropriate.

But do you realise that you most likely have damaged the reputation of Sunsine too? Causing fear in Sunsine shareholders and potential investors at the sideline.

(02-08-2017, 08:37 AM)piaopiao Wrote: Weijian,

You may firmly believe your posts on Sunsine's chairman and ID Benny Lim are appropriate.

But do you realise that you most likely have damaged the reputation of Sunsine too? Causing fear in Sunsine shareholders and potential investors at the sideline.

Let's drop the topic. Weijian's last post has concluded the case. I am bored by the "debate" already.

No one pay any attention to the last dividend paid? I reckon most shareholders were expecting bigger payout.

(02-08-2017, 09:28 AM)YMPL Wrote:

(02-08-2017, 08:37 AM)piaopiao Wrote: Weijian,

You may firmly believe your posts on Sunsine's chairman and ID Benny Lim are appropriate.

But do you realise that you most likely have damaged the reputation of Sunsine too? Causing fear in Sunsine shareholders and potential investors at the sideline.

Let's drop the topic. Weijian's last post has concluded the case. I am bored by the "debate" already.

No one pay any attention to the last dividend paid? I reckon most shareholders were expecting bigger payout.

Ya I optimistically wish for 0.008 but I can accept 0.005. It is the first interim dividend in sunsine history. If you look at the dividend trend and various ratio as well as CAGR on revenue, gross and net profit, you can clearly see the company is on the growth path. Take a look at their latest website and corporate video plus slides on various results briefing, plenty of transparent and useful information.

(02-08-2017, 09:28 AM)YMPL Wrote: Let's drop the topic. Weijian's last post has concluded the case. I am bored by the "debate" already.

No one pay any attention to the last dividend paid? I reckon most shareholders were expecting bigger payout.

I had taken a look when the results came out last week. Previously, i had mentioned that the payment of these "treasury share gains" would be a big positive flag - "I do what i say".

From pg7 of the movement in the company equity position:
- As expected, the gains of 54.6mil RMB (~11mil sgd) is categorized under "other reserves".
- Based on 0.5cents payout, the total payout is ~2.5mil sgd (12.5mil RMB) and represents a "payout ratio" of ~23%.
- Personally, i think this is considered on the "low-end" range and a shareholder would be expecting more (at least 50% wouldn't be unreasonable in my opinion). Nonetheless, this might be paid out by the end of the year through the final/special dividends. Let's see how it goes.

2Q17 results: http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/CS.2Q201...eID=464305

To the newbies on this thread:

1. I think it is bad manners to shout.
2. If one cannot take criticism on the counter that one purchases, I think the market will discipline you sooner or later.
3. The point that weijian was pointing out is that a certain ID had a patchy track record in another counter. If that is indeed so, the ID cannot be expected to defend the interests of OPMIs vigorously (although I struggle to name great IDs). So far, I've failed to see anyone engaging weijian on this point. Please also note that weijian DID NOT conclude that because the company has such a ID, it is therefore not worth investing in.

(02-08-2017, 12:29 PM)HitandRun Wrote: To the newbies on this thread:

1. I think it is bad manners to shout.
2. If one cannot take criticism on the counter that one purchases, I think the market will discipline you sooner or later.
3. The point that weijian was pointing out is that a certain ID had a patchy track record in another counter. If that is indeed so, the ID cannot be expected to defend the interests of OPMIs vigorously (although I struggle to name great IDs). So far, I've failed to see anyone engaging weijian on this point. Please also note that weijian DID NOT conclude that because the company has such a ID, it is therefore not worth investing in.

But i have made some inferences from Weijian's post and most probably there are others like me too.

Weijian may be wiser not to talk about Chairman and ID.

(02-08-2017, 11:57 AM)weijian Wrote:

(02-08-2017, 09:28 AM)YMPL Wrote: Let's drop the topic. Weijian's last post has concluded the case. I am bored by the "debate" already.

No one pay any attention to the last dividend paid? I reckon most shareholders were expecting bigger payout.

I had taken a look when the results came out last week. Previously, i had mentioned that the payment of these "treasury share gains" would be a big positive flag - "I do what i say".

From pg7 of the movement in the company equity position:
- As expected, the gains of 54.6mil RMB (~11mil sgd) is categorized under "other reserves".
- Based on 0.5cents payout, the total payout is ~2.5mil sgd (12.5mil RMB) and represents a "payout ratio" of ~23%.
- Personally, i think this is considered on the "low-end" range and a shareholder would be expecting more (at least 50% wouldn't be unreasonable in my opinion). Nonetheless, this might be paid out by the end of the year through the final/special dividends. Let's see how it goes.

2Q17 results: http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/CS.2Q201...eID=464305

I can understand why sunsine seems to tread cautiously and 'only' stipulate 20% dividend policy and not higher. After all, it had just repaid all loan in FY16, a tremendous achievement I may add, as they have to take care of capex need (new plants, among others) as well as other expenses. A less well managed company would have added on debts or issue cash call instead of clearing the debt, increase cash holding and paying dividends all at the same time. Now I can see the NAV is growing with cash portion of the NAV increasing as well. This is important as the company has the ability and flexibility to pay higher dividends in future with more cash in hands. I am willing to wait as I can see it is happening.