King Wan Corporation

(10-03-2016, 04:04 PM)LaurenceLau Wrote: I thought Construction company booked in profit by % of completion of project.  Developer can only booked in profit on completion of whole project.

You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

(10-03-2016, 09:48 PM)GFG Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 04:04 PM)LaurenceLau Wrote: I thought Construction company booked in profit by % of completion of project.  Developer can only booked in profit on completion of whole project.

You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

Irregardless of how they recognise the revenue or profit from the M&E works done or sales done for skywoods on paper, my guess is the bulk of the cash (receivables and loans to associate) should be collected after TOP ( which I read somewhere in June 2016, subject to BCA's approval) as the condo buyers have to  pay up the rest of the money, as such, I'm speculating that they are going to have the cash to pay dividend. And we are going to monitor whether they get recurring profit/loss from the new dormitory business, and are they going to burn more good money for bad investment in China, instead of providing good and stable dividend for SHH.

(11-03-2016, 10:09 AM)ozxinvest Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 09:48 PM)GFG Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 04:04 PM)LaurenceLau Wrote: I thought Construction company booked in profit by % of completion of project.  Developer can only booked in profit on completion of whole project.

You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

Irregardless of how they recognise the revenue or profit from the M&E works done or sales done for skywoods on paper, my guess is the bulk of the cash (receivables and loans to associate) should be collected after TOP ( which I read somewhere in June 2016, subject to BCA's approval) as the condo buyers have to  pay up the rest of the money, as such, I'm speculating that they are going to have the cash to pay dividend. And we are going to monitor whether they get recurring profit/loss from the new dormitory business, and are they going to burn more good money for bad investment in China, instead of providing good and stable dividend for SHH.

M&E works definitely no doubt, booked profit on certified work done.  Developer should be completion of whole project plus WHATEVER IS SOLD.  If units not sold how to know how much profit you have made?

(11-03-2016, 11:20 AM)LaurenceLau Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 10:09 AM)ozxinvest Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 09:48 PM)GFG Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 04:04 PM)LaurenceLau Wrote: I thought Construction company booked in profit by % of completion of project.  Developer can only booked in profit on completion of whole project.

You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

Irregardless of how they recognise the revenue or profit from the M&E works done or sales done for skywoods on paper, my guess is the bulk of the cash (receivables and loans to associate) should be collected after TOP ( which I read somewhere in June 2016, subject to BCA's approval) as the condo buyers have to  pay up the rest of the money, as such, I'm speculating that they are going to have the cash to pay dividend. And we are going to monitor whether they get recurring profit/loss from the new dormitory business, and are they going to burn more good money for bad investment in China, instead of providing good and stable dividend for SHH.

M&E works definitely no doubt, booked profit on certified work done.  Developer should be completion of whole project plus WHATEVER IS SOLD.  If units not sold how to know how much profit you have made?

It's a bit too lengthy to explain in detail, but perhaps u can read up again on the revenue recognition
It's also in the AR, although the AR doesn't explain in detail
Skywoods recognition is def by POC
The formula is simply cost incurred to construct etc / total costs X expected profit
So it's proportional.
Note that we're talking solely about revenue recognition not about BS items or CF

anyone else noticed that today KW's share price rose from $0.19 to $0.3 (>50%rise!)
and it's all due to a last transaction of a nominal 100 shares at a crazy jump.

What's going on? Window dressing for institutional SHs to bulk up their performance for Q1?
A fat finger trade? (The fact that only 100 shares means this is not likely)

(16-03-2016, 12:30 AM)GFG Wrote: anyone else noticed that today KW's share price rose from $0.19 to $0.3 (>50%rise!)
and it's all due to a last transaction of a nominal 100 shares at a crazy jump.

What's going on? Window dressing for institutional SHs to bulk up their performance for Q1?
A fat finger trade? (The fact that only 100 shares means this is not likely)

Ya noticed that. Wide buy/sell queue so easy to be manipulated, nothing to cheer about but it feels good to have paper gain running up 50%..lol.
Take cue from TA share price, very similar situation. Do hope they continue to pay dividend while we wait for better times, if not, another round of sell down is possible.

(11-03-2016, 12:12 PM)GFG Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 11:20 AM)LaurenceLau Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 10:09 AM)ozxinvest Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 09:48 PM)GFG Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 04:04 PM)LaurenceLau Wrote: I thought Construction company booked in profit by % of completion of project.  Developer can only booked in profit on completion of whole project.

You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

Irregardless of how they recognise the revenue or profit from the M&E works done or sales done for skywoods on paper, my guess is the bulk of the cash (receivables and loans to associate) should be collected after TOP ( which I read somewhere in June 2016, subject to BCA's approval) as the condo buyers have to  pay up the rest of the money, as such, I'm speculating that they are going to have the cash to pay dividend. And we are going to monitor whether they get recurring profit/loss from the new dormitory business, and are they going to burn more good money for bad investment in China, instead of providing good and stable dividend for SHH.

M&E works definitely no doubt, booked profit on certified work done.  Developer should be completion of whole project plus WHATEVER IS SOLD.  If units not sold how to know how much profit you have made?

It's a bit too lengthy to explain in detail, but perhaps u can read up again on the revenue recognition
It's also in the AR, although the AR doesn't explain in detail
Skywoods recognition is def by POC
The formula is simply cost incurred to construct etc / total costs X expected profit
So it's proportional.
Note that we're talking solely about revenue recognition not about BS items or CF

GFG, AR2015 page 53 said, profit for the year 2015 is $249,546 but group share of associate profit is -$389,929.  How is it that profit is positive for associates but group shares of profit for these associates turned out negative?

(16-03-2016, 02:33 PM)GPD Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 12:12 PM)GFG Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 11:20 AM)LaurenceLau Wrote:

(11-03-2016, 10:09 AM)ozxinvest Wrote:

(10-03-2016, 09:48 PM)GFG Wrote: You're mistaken.

Anyway, the previous quarters KW already recognized some profit from skywoods.
Ditto for their partner hock Lian Seng, so how can it be COC method

Irregardless of how they recognise the revenue or profit from the M&E works done or sales done for skywoods on paper, my guess is the bulk of the cash (receivables and loans to associate) should be collected after TOP ( which I read somewhere in June 2016, subject to BCA's approval) as the condo buyers have to  pay up the rest of the money, as such, I'm speculating that they are going to have the cash to pay dividend. And we are going to monitor whether they get recurring profit/loss from the new dormitory business, and are they going to burn more good money for bad investment in China, instead of providing good and stable dividend for SHH.

M&E works definitely no doubt, booked profit on certified work done.  Developer should be completion of whole project plus WHATEVER IS SOLD.  If units not sold how to know how much profit you have made?

It's a bit too lengthy to explain in detail, but perhaps u can read up again on the revenue recognition
It's also in the AR, although the AR doesn't explain in detail
Skywoods recognition is def by POC
The formula is simply cost incurred to construct etc / total costs X expected profit
So it's proportional.
Note that we're talking solely about revenue recognition not about BS items or CF

GFG, AR2015 page 53 said, profit for the year 2015 is $249,546 but group share of associate profit is -$389,929.  How is it that profit is positive for associates but group shares of profit for these associates turned out negative?

There are several associates:
- SI property
- Vessel
- Skywoods
- Starlight
Some profitable and some unprofitable. As a whole the associates may be profitable collectively, but KW's stake in each associate varies. So in this case, they have a larger stake in the more unprofitable associates and a smaller stake in the profitable ones.
Notice that in the prior year, (2014 AR), it is the other way around.
Collectively the associates are unprofitable, but KW's share is profitable. 
There is no breakdown of each associate, but it's safe to say that Skywoods is the profitable one

(16-03-2016, 04:15 PM)GFG Wrote:

(16-03-2016, 02:33 PM)GPD Wrote: GFG, AR2015 page 53 said, profit for the year 2015 is $249,546 but group share of associate profit is -$389,929.  How is it that profit is positive for associates but group shares of profit for these associates turned out negative?

There are several associates:
- SI property
- Vessel
- Skywoods
- Starlight
Some profitable and some unprofitable. As a whole the associates may be profitable collectively, but KW's stake in each associate varies. So in this case, they have a larger stake in the more unprofitable associates and a smaller stake in the profitable ones.
Notice that in the prior year, (2014 AR), it is the other way around.
Collectively the associates are unprofitable, but KW's share is profitable. 
There is no breakdown of each associate, but it's safe to say that Skywoods is the profitable one

Sorrie, kaypoh a bit.

They do provide a breakdown of the associates but not all. When we reconcile the "big 4", there's indeed a gap. 

GPD, good observation! The curious question, "where?"

[Image: ncfspx.jpg]

PS: FY2014 ownership interest of Nexus Point should be 0%. No impact though. Please feel free to point out other mistakes.

(16-03-2016, 11:41 PM)cif5000 Wrote:

(16-03-2016, 04:15 PM)GFG Wrote:

(16-03-2016, 02:33 PM)GPD Wrote: GFG, AR2015 page 53 said, profit for the year 2015 is $249,546 but group share of associate profit is -$389,929.  How is it that profit is positive for associates but group shares of profit for these associates turned out negative?

There are several associates:
- SI property
- Vessel
- Skywoods
- Starlight
Some profitable and some unprofitable. As a whole the associates may be profitable collectively, but KW's stake in each associate varies. So in this case, they have a larger stake in the more unprofitable associates and a smaller stake in the profitable ones.
Notice that in the prior year, (2014 AR), it is the other way around.
Collectively the associates are unprofitable, but KW's share is profitable. 
There is no breakdown of each associate, but it's safe to say that Skywoods is the profitable one

Sorrie, kaypoh a bit.

They do provide a breakdown of the associates but not all. When we reconcile the "big 4", there's indeed a gap. 

GPD, good observation! The curious question, "where?"

[Image: ncfspx.jpg]

PS: FY2014 ownership interest of Nexus Point should be 0%. No impact though. Please feel free to point out other mistakes.

I got the same numbers as you so I cannot reconcile the differences too.  Another bits that I cannot reconcile is the revenue for MBD which has a 50% stake in Bukit Timah Green.  $18mil for 2015 and $40mil for 2014.  If I used the combined sale value of Starlight and Skywoods units for these two years, the values are much higher.