Sino Grandness

(14-02-2016, 11:02 PM)crubs Wrote: Boon,

Thank you once again for showing me that you do not know anything about Sino Grandness' situation !

You are right about situation D, but that is Not Sino Grandness' situation. You have missed out a major point. Do you know what you missed out ?

I suggest you read the circulars again before debating with me.

Or tell me when you give up so I can give you the answer

Oh by the way, it was also explained during the July 2012 EGM. Too bad you just started looking at this company and there's a lot that you still don't know.

Haha yes, thank you for helping me explain "Extraordinary Item". Now we are getting closer to the truth.

Hi crubs,

Agress wit others view. Pherhaps you could provide us your views on the EGM and the points that Boon has missed out, whenever you are free. Thank you

Hi All

To be fair, Boon has also teased and challenge fellow forummers. Yeokiwi, you just have to scroll back a few pages and read. It goes both ways.


With reference to Crubs latest posting? Who can answer? I want to know as Oldman here is vested. Boon can you answer or all are waiting for Crubs?

cheers all
Oldman9

In Page 16 of 5th Feb circular they have given the NP for the ListCo for current year - "The net profits before income tax, minority interest and extraordinary items attributable to the ListCo Shares to be disposed of was approximately RMB 135.6 million (approximately S$ 29.6 million) (representing 31.5% of the profit before income tax, minority interest and extraordinary items of the ListCo Group of approximately RMB 430.5 million (approximately S$ 93.9 million) for 9M2015) and the profit before income tax, minority interest and extraordinary items of the Group for 9M2015 was approximately RMB 604.7 million (approximately S$ 131.9 million)".

In the above have they excluded the amortizations as extraordinary items?

(14-02-2016, 09:29 PM)Young Investor Wrote: Hi Mr Boon

Can you let us know why you deleted the underlined portion of the definition on "net profit":  

“Net Profit” means, with respect to a financial quarter or a financial year of the HK Issuer, the consolidated net profits of the HK Issuer and its subsidiaries after taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation with respect to such financial quarter or year, as applicable, as confirmed by the audited accounts of the HK Issuer. For the avoidance of doubt, costs and expenses incurred in connection with the Qualifying IPO and any extraordinary items shall not be taken into account in determining “Net Profit”.

Hi Young Investor,

See page 6 of the July 4 circular on definition of "Net Profit" which says:

Net Profit = "With respect to a financial quarter or a financial year of the HK Issuer, the consolidated net profits of the HK Issuer and its subsidiaries after taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation with respect to such financial quarter or year, as applicable, as confirmed by the audited accounts of the HK Issuer "

Did I delete or add anything to it? Ha-ha!
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(15-02-2016, 11:41 AM)Boon Wrote:

(14-02-2016, 09:29 PM)Young Investor Wrote: Hi Mr Boon

Can you let us know why you deleted the underlined portion of the definition on "net profit":  

“Net Profit” means, with respect to a financial quarter or a financial year of the HK Issuer, the consolidated net profits of the HK Issuer and its subsidiaries after taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation with respect to such financial quarter or year, as applicable, as confirmed by the audited accounts of the HK Issuer. For the avoidance of doubt, costs and expenses incurred in connection with the Qualifying IPO and any extraordinary items shall not be taken into account in determining “Net Profit”.

Hi Young Investor,

See page 6 of the July 4 circular on definition of "Net Profit" which says:

Net Profit = "With respect to a financial quarter or a financial year of the HK Issuer, the consolidated net profits of the HK Issuer and its subsidiaries after taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation with respect to such financial quarter or year, as applicable, as confirmed by the audited accounts of the HK Issuer "

Did I delete or add anything to it? Ha-ha!
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Mr Boon

But you have been quoting extensively from the circular and must have read page 43 which stated:

“Net Profit” means, with respect to a financial quarter or a financial year of the HK Issuer, the consolidated net profits of the HK Issuer and its subsidiaries after taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation with respect to such financial quarter or year, as applicable, as confirmed by the audited accounts of the HK Issuer. For the avoidance of doubt, costs and expenses incurred in connection with the Qualifying IPO and any extraordinary items shall not be taken into account in determining “Net Profit”.

(14-02-2016, 11:02 PM)crubs Wrote: Boon,

Thank you once again for showing me that you do not know anything about Sino Grandness' situation !

You are right about situation D, but that is Not Sino Grandness' situation. You have missed out a major point. Do you know what you missed out ?

I suggest you read the circulars again before debating with me.

Or tell me when you give up so I can give you the answer

Oh by the way, it was also explained during the July 2012 EGM. Too bad you just started looking at this company and there's a lot that you still don't know.

Haha yes, thank you for helping me explain "Extraordinary Item". Now we are getting closer to the truth.

Hi crubs,
 
Your statement: “Too bad you just started looking at this company and there's a lot that you still don't know.”
 
True, there’s still a lot that I still do not know about this company as I had just started looking at this company recently.
 
There are pros and cons of being late but overall not necessarily a bad thing, I reckon.    
 
Did I specifically say situation D applied to SG?
 
You could add in situation E to reflect SG’s true situation but the facts remained that interests expenses associated with CB had been incurred.
 
Non-cash interest expenses related to convertible bonds amounted to RMB61.8m (in FY2014) and RMB86.9m in (FY2013).
 
Were these interest expenses of RMB 61.8m and RMB 86.9 m “extraordinary items?
 
NO, there were NOT extraordinary items. There were ordinary expenses incurred by normal business operational activities.
 
There is nothing in the contract that specifically says these interest expenses were “extraordinary items”.
 
Be it the concept of “extraordinary items” or other comparable “concept”, what do you think are the “intent” and “spirit” behind the adoption of such concept in the contract? 
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(15-02-2016, 01:40 PM)Boon Wrote:

(14-02-2016, 11:02 PM)crubs Wrote: Boon,

Thank you once again for showing me that you do not know anything about Sino Grandness' situation !

You are right about situation D, but that is Not Sino Grandness' situation. You have missed out a major point. Do you know what you missed out ?

I suggest you read the circulars again before debating with me.

Or tell me when you give up so I can give you the answer

Oh by the way, it was also explained during the July 2012 EGM. Too bad you just started looking at this company and there's a lot that you still don't know.

Haha yes, thank you for helping me explain "Extraordinary Item". Now we are getting closer to the truth.

Hi crubs,
 
Your statement: “Too bad you just started looking at this company and there's a lot that you still don't know.”
 
True, there’s still a lot that I still do not know about this company as I had just started looking at this company recently.
 
There are pros and cons of being late but overall not necessarily a bad thing, I reckon.    
 
Did I specifically say situation D applied to SG?
 
You could add in situation E to reflect SG’s true situation but the facts remained that interests expenses associated with CB had been incurred.
 
Non-cash interest expenses related to convertible bonds amounted to RMB61.8m (in FY2014) and RMB86.9m in (FY2013).
 
Were these interest expenses of RMB 61.8m and RMB 86.9 m “extraordinary items?
 
NO, there were NOT extraordinary items. There were ordinary expenses incurred by normal business operational activities.
 
There is nothing in the contract that specifically says these interest expenses were “extraordinary items”.
 
Be it the concept of “extraordinary items” or other comparable “concept”, what do you think are the “intent” and “spirit” behind the adoption of such concept in the contract? 
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Hi Boon,

These CBs are Zero coupon Bonds if I am right. The fact that the company had fulfilled all the conditions set out in the initial agreement had changed the complexion of the CB into quasi equity and it got 2 components - the NPV based on the discount rate & the changes in fair value. In effect the company did not pay any interest to the CBs till date & when it goes to IPO they will be paid in full in the form of shares at an agreed valuation. So how can we consider the amortization expenses when nothing has been paid to CBs till date?

Things are really happening, over our short valentine break. My apologies, by not able to act in a timely manner.

I recall an occasion, a back-bencher "expert" has criticized speakers' view. Once the chairperson, asked for further clarification, the answer was "I have no obligation to educate all here". I appreciate "expert" view, but a view without further detail, is meaningless, and in fact, the act had wasted everyone's time in the seminar.

I wish no similar post in this forum. You can doubt, and criticize. Please withhold your post, if you are not ready to disclose the justification. It will waste our time here, including yours.

I will moderate the thread, after this message

Thank you

Regards
Moderator CF

Hi Boon,

Before I continue, just to double check. From your post #1290 and #1296, are you saying that the Net Profit used to value Garden Fresh should exclude Fair Value changes and include Non-cash Interest Expense ?

(15-02-2016, 04:33 PM)crubs Wrote: Hi Boon,

Before I continue, just to double check. From your post #1290 and #1296, are you saying that the Net Profit used to value Garden Fresh should exclude Fair Value changes and include Non-cash Interest Expense ?

Hi crubs,
 
I would rather use After/Before than Exclude/Include to avoid making the same mistake again in my earlier computation. Ha-ha!
 
Net Profit should be profit
 
After taxation, interest, depreciation and amortisation (of non-cash interest expenses related to CB)
 
Before Fair Value Change arising from CB
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By the way, I think government grant (infrequent) is another example of “extraordinary items” that would give rise to higher profit.
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