Sino Grandness

http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

As per usual, the financial statement is showing signs of...to put it lightly..."unusual activities".

(12-11-2015, 08:48 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

Red flag: Confusing Convertible bonds, balloning receivables.....

(12-11-2015, 08:48 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

GG, May I know whats so confusing?

(12-11-2015, 11:24 PM)BlueDogMeow Wrote: As per usual, the financial statement is showing signs of...to put it lightly..."unusual activities".

BDM, Can you spell out what are the "unusual activities"? Thanks.

(13-11-2015, 05:59 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 08:48 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

GG, May I know whats so confusing?

http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3371-...#pid122294

I m not alone... des oso mention in his thread that its confusing with CBs...

For those buddies who can provide detailed analysis, your profounding views are greatly welcome...

I think being able to have a good view of a listed investment is important...

Buddies here are all for an open forum for thorough discussions... we have no intentions to put down anyone or any companies so long we can find acceptable reasons for what accounts are showing...

I have been reading accounts for close to 3 decades and perhaps I m really old and expired so I m merely humbly asking for directions.

Kaypoh Buddy
YMMV

(13-11-2015, 06:00 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 11:24 PM)BlueDogMeow Wrote: As per usual, the financial statement is showing signs of...to put it lightly..."unusual activities".

BDM, Can you spell out what are the "unusual activities"? Thanks.

AR days up to 216 days, from 198 days...in 1 quarter. Interesting how there is no commentary on CB at all. Look at CAPEX, jumps to 112.9m. Why? No commentary.

(13-11-2015, 08:10 AM)BlueDogMeow Wrote:

(13-11-2015, 06:00 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 11:24 PM)BlueDogMeow Wrote: As per usual, the financial statement is showing signs of...to put it lightly..."unusual activities".

BDM, Can you spell out what are the "unusual activities"? Thanks.

AR days up to 216 days, from 198 days...in 1 quarter. Interesting how there is no commentary on CB at all. Look at CAPEX, jumps to 112.9m. Why? No commentary.

The account receivables comprise two parts, trade receivables and other receivables.

other receivables comprise VAT receivables and export tax refunds owed by government, as well as repayments to contractors and suppliers. 

This has been discussed here before.

The construction of the new Anhui factory is in progress, and is incurring capex.

(13-11-2015, 06:49 AM)greengiraffe Wrote:

(13-11-2015, 05:59 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 08:48 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

GG, May I know whats so confusing?

http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3371-...#pid122294

I m not alone... des oso mention in his thread that its confusing with CBs...

For those buddies who can provide detailed analysis, your profounding views are greatly welcome...

I think being able to have a good view of a listed investment is important...

Buddies here are all for an open forum for thorough discussions... we have no intentions to put down anyone or any companies so long we can find acceptable reasons for what accounts are showing...

I have been reading accounts for close to 3 decades and perhaps I m really old and expired so I m merely humbly asking for directions.

Kaypoh Buddy
YMMV

GG,

As you are more experienced than all of us, can you help by pointing out which parts of the following notes in 2014 annual report are dubious:  

(Page 118) 

The valuations of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds in prior years had been computed on the basis that the IPO of the Company’s wholly-owned foreign subsidiary, Garden Fresh (HK) will be successful on or before the maturity of the convertible bonds to enable the conversion by bondholders and hence a fair value was not attributed to the conversion options and extension options which meets the definition of a derivative financial liability. The effect of the redemption returns was also not computed as part of the amortised cost of the convertible bonds as it was considered then not to be closely related to the host debt instrument in a compound instrument relationship.
In financial year 2013, in conjunction with the proposed IPO of Garden Fresh (HK), the Group carried out a reassessment of the fair values of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds. The fair value of the conversion option and extension option which is linked to and must be settled by delivery of unquoted equity instrument was deemed to be not reliably measurable as the probabilities of the various estimates within the range cannot be reasonably assessed and used in estimating fair value, and the variability in the range of reasonable fair value estimates is considered to be significant. Consequently, the fair value of the conversion options was carried out at cost less allowance for impairment under FRS 39 for the financial year ended 31 December 2013.
During the current financial year, Garden Fresh (HK) had repurchased RMB 19.5 million or 19.5% of the 2011 RMB 100 million Convertible Bond at an agreed repurchase price of RMB 38.6 million with an implied interest cost which was close to the redemption return of 25% per annum compounded annually from the inception of the bond. In addition, the maturity of the remaining RMB 80.5 million 2011 Convertible Bond was extended to its Extended Maturity Date of 30 June 2015. In view of the above repurchase of the 2011 Convertible Bond and its Extended Maturity Date, and having regard to the maturity of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds which are due in June and July 2015 respectively, the Company in close consultation with its independent valuer have performed a reassessment of the fair values of the convertible bonds. The Company is of the view that the conversion options and extension options should have been fair valued notwithstanding the successful IPO assumption made in prior years and that the redemption returns should have been considered closely related to the host debt instrument being an amount that would have to be repaid as part of the amortised cost of the host debt instruments. Hence, a third statement of fi nancial position is presented.

(Page 92)

The amortised cost of the convertible bond was calculated using cash fl ows of the convertible bonds at their corresponding discount rates and the fair value of the option derivatives was calculated using the Binomial Option Pricing Model.

I will write to IR for clarification.

Thank you.

(13-11-2015, 04:16 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(13-11-2015, 06:49 AM)greengiraffe Wrote:

(13-11-2015, 05:59 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 08:48 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: http://infopub.sgx.com/Apps?A=COW_CorpAn...cement.pdf

How is the results... appreciate insights from buddies who tracked this co closely...

I don't know how to read this type of accounts... too confusing for me...

KayPoh Buddy
GG

GG, May I know whats so confusing?

http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3371-...#pid122294

I m not alone... des oso mention in his thread that its confusing with CBs...

For those buddies who can provide detailed analysis, your profounding views are greatly welcome...

I think being able to have a good view of a listed investment is important...

Buddies here are all for an open forum for thorough discussions... we have no intentions to put down anyone or any companies so long we can find acceptable reasons for what accounts are showing...

I have been reading accounts for close to 3 decades and perhaps I m really old and expired so I m merely humbly asking for directions.

Kaypoh Buddy
YMMV

GG,

As you are more experienced than all of us, can you help by pointing out which parts of the following notes in 2014 annual report are dubious:  

(Page 118) 

The valuations of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds in prior years had been computed on the basis that the IPO of the Company’s wholly-owned foreign subsidiary, Garden Fresh (HK) will be successful on or before the maturity of the convertible bonds to enable the conversion by bondholders and hence a fair value was not attributed to the conversion options and extension options which meets the definition of a derivative financial liability. The effect of the redemption returns was also not computed as part of the amortised cost of the convertible bonds as it was considered then not to be closely related to the host debt instrument in a compound instrument relationship.
In financial year 2013, in conjunction with the proposed IPO of Garden Fresh (HK), the Group carried out a reassessment of the fair values of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds. The fair value of the conversion option and extension option which is linked to and must be settled by delivery of unquoted equity instrument was deemed to be not reliably measurable as the probabilities of the various estimates within the range cannot be reasonably assessed and used in estimating fair value, and the variability in the range of reasonable fair value estimates is considered to be significant. Consequently, the fair value of the conversion options was carried out at cost less allowance for impairment under FRS 39 for the financial year ended 31 December 2013.
During the current financial year, Garden Fresh (HK) had repurchased RMB 19.5 million or 19.5% of the 2011 RMB 100 million Convertible Bond at an agreed repurchase price of RMB 38.6 million with an implied interest cost which was close to the redemption return of 25% per annum compounded annually from the inception of the bond. In addition, the maturity of the remaining RMB 80.5 million 2011 Convertible Bond was extended to its Extended Maturity Date of 30 June 2015. In view of the above repurchase of the 2011 Convertible Bond and its Extended Maturity Date, and having regard to the maturity of the 2011 and 2012 Convertible Bonds which are due in June and July 2015 respectively, the Company in close consultation with its independent valuer have performed a reassessment of the fair values of the convertible bonds. The Company is of the view that the conversion options and extension options should have been fair valued notwithstanding the successful IPO assumption made in prior years and that the redemption returns should have been considered closely related to the host debt instrument being an amount that would have to be repaid as part of the amortised cost of the host debt instruments. Hence, a third statement of fi nancial position is presented.

(Page 92)

The amortised cost of the convertible bond was calculated using cash fl ows of the convertible bonds at their corresponding discount rates and the fair value of the option derivatives was calculated using the Binomial Option Pricing Model.

I will write to IR for clarification.

Thank you.

Hi Leeta,

Thanks for that. I will leave it to you. 

I m too old to look at things that is deemed too much for myself.

I m sorry if I may have caused any inconvenience here. I m truly sorry for this as you have put in your good share of effort into researching this co.

Honestly sometimes old man can no longer handle too much minute details and hence I tend to look at things top down.

Good Luck
GG