Sino Grandness

To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

The Thais are interested in the distribution network of Sino Grandness ("SG") in China that has helped SG pulled in annual growths in sales and has probably verified SG's sales channels.

To say the rest is a bonus may be incorrect.

I wish to highlight that 1) TTA (one of the Thai investors listed in Thailand) is equity accounting for SG's profit and losses in its financial statements as TTA is treating SG as an associate company and 2) as a result of the Thai's negotiation with SG, SG now has a dividend policy to give 10% of its annual profits as dividends starting in FY2015.

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

(18-08-2015, 11:56 AM)weijian Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

Sorry don't understand your post. Are you worrying abt the Thais? The Thais came in with their eyes wide open. They know that they wont be getting the dividend this year. They will get it only in 2016. They have also locked up 46m of their shares for 10 yrs.

If Sinog is a fake and incur loses later on, the Thais will have to share the losses.

Have you ever tried going to China to check out whether Garden Fresh is as popular as their sales figures suggest? It's funny how you're willing to outsource all your research to the Thais when far more prominent investors than TTA have got things wrong in other investments before.

To the Thais, this investment is just 2% or less of their overall portfolio. They can afford to be wrong. Can you?

(18-08-2015, 02:37 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:56 AM)weijian Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

Sorry don't understand your post. Are you worrying abt the Thais? The Thais came in with their eyes wide open. They know that they wont be getting the dividend this year. They will get it only in 2016. They have also locked up 46m of their shares for 10 yrs.

If Sinog is a fake and incur loses later on, the Thais will have to share the losses.

Thai made another purchase yesterday 499lots @ 0.289cts and Huang 200lots at same price. Huang has been collecting and never sold a single share to date.

(18-08-2015, 06:39 PM)cracker Wrote: Have you ever tried going to China to check out whether Garden Fresh is as popular as their sales figures suggest? It's funny how you're willing to outsource all your research to the Thais when far more prominent investors than TTA have got things wrong in other investments before.

To the Thais, this investment is just 2% or less of their overall portfolio. They can afford to be wrong. Can you?

(18-08-2015, 02:37 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:56 AM)weijian Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

Sorry don't understand your post. Are you worrying abt the Thais? The Thais came in with their eyes wide open. They know that they wont be getting the dividend this year. They will get it only in 2016. They have also locked up 46m of their shares for 10 yrs.

If Sinog is a fake and incur loses later on, the Thais will have to share the losses.

The Thai seems to be doing silly things. Throwing more good money after knowing they are "wrong". lol. No wonder they are so rich. lol.

Cracker, you so sure everyone ppl here in VB never do their own independent research? I suggest you read once through this forum and others like SJ and NextInsight. There are quite a lot of external independent news sources of SG's success and biz. It's all there, waiting for those who are willing to put the extra effort to dig.

No doubt, it's an S-Cheap, and currently also off many analysts' radar, thats' why the current price so chui. But don't discount this S-cheap so fast, you might regret it.

And don't keep thinking all maids are forever poor - one just strike Toto recently. And don't report to police when you see one too.

(18-08-2015, 06:39 PM)cracker Wrote: Have you ever tried going to China to check out whether Garden Fresh is as popular as their sales figures suggest? It's funny how you're willing to outsource all your research to the Thais when far more prominent investors than TTA have got things wrong in other investments before.

To the Thais, this investment is just 2% or less of their overall portfolio. They can afford to be wrong. Can you?

(18-08-2015, 02:37 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:56 AM)weijian Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

Sorry don't understand your post. Are you worrying abt the Thais? The Thais came in with their eyes wide open. They know that they wont be getting the dividend this year. They will get it only in 2016. They have also locked up 46m of their shares for 10 yrs.

If Sinog is a fake and incur loses later on, the Thais will have to share the losses.

(18-08-2015, 02:37 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:56 AM)weijian Wrote:

(18-08-2015, 11:20 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: To provide a probable reason of discrepancy between the Thai, and the rest.

The rest are skeptical on the company sales and growth performances. The Thai interest, is mainly on its distribution network, based on my limited reading on announcement. Of course, the rest is a bonus to the Thai.

There might be a scenario, all are not wrong. The Thai isn't ignorant, while the skeptical on company sale/growth isn't without reason(s).

(just sharing a thought, after reading the posts here)

So far, the Thais seem to be benefited from recognising SFI's income as a line item on it's PL, but only paying half for this privilege. This could be the reason why (I tend to try to interprete what things look like, rather than what they sound like). Since SFI doesn't pay a dividend, the earnings for TTA aren't really that 'solid' persay and the real situation (free cash flow) is somehow glossed over.
For SFI to pay a dividend, it has to be able to collect a large part of its receivables first (like what happened to China Minzhong)....

Sorry don't understand your post. Are you worrying abt the Thais? The Thais came in with their eyes wide open. They know that they wont be getting the dividend this year. They will get it only in 2016. They have also locked up 46m of their shares for 10 yrs.

If Sinog is a fake and incur loses later on, the Thais will have to share the losses.

Hi Leeta,
The old adage saying 'What is dumb at one price, is clever at the other'.

My point is, the Thais are getting a real sweet deal (paying half for a full P/L recognition privilege). Sweet deals are hard to extract from good companies. But sometimes good companies can go distressed and are 'forced' to do sweet deals. Examples would be WB extracting excellent deals with juicy fixed coupons from Harvey Davidson/Goldman Sachs during GFC08 period. So is SFI a good company or a distressed company?

While the Thais and OPMIs of SFI both have $ vested and will share in losses, i see that there is still great asymmetry between both. As a listed and investment holding company, the Thais have different ways to extract value from their stake in SFI - For example for 1H15, SFI accounts for > half of its final accounting profit, since its other energy/shipping businesses are suffering losses. Propping up its accounts in turn can help to support its share price, allows it to keep to its covenants (if any), maintain its ratings and issue new debt. I would argue that it is more beneficial for them to keep the show running on for now, to continue to milk its intangible benefits from SFI. OTOH, OPMIs of SFI can only wait for capital gains from selling their stock or the proposed 2016 dividend.

(18-08-2015, 11:52 PM)weijian Wrote: Hi Leeta,
The old adage saying 'What is dumb at one price, is clever at the other'.

My point is, the Thais are getting a real sweet deal (paying half for a full P/L recognition privilege). Sweet deals are hard to extract from good companies. But sometimes good companies can go distressed and are 'forced' to do sweet deals. Examples would be WB extracting excellent deals with juicy fixed coupons from Harvey Davidson/Goldman Sachs during GFC08 period. So is SFI a good company or a distressed company?

While the Thais and OPMIs of SFI both have $ vested and will share in losses, i see that there is still great asymmetry between both. As a listed and investment holding company, the Thais have different ways to extract value from their stake in SFI - For example for 1H15, SFI accounts for > half of its final accounting profit, since its other energy/shipping businesses are suffering losses. Propping up its accounts in turn can help to support its share price, allows it to keep to its covenants (if any), maintain its ratings and issue new debt. I would argue that it is more beneficial for them to keep the show running on for now, to continue to milk its intangible benefits from SFI. OTOH, OPMIs of SFI can only wait for capital gains from selling their stock or the proposed 2016 dividend.

It is interesting to see the view that TTA now is being painted as a party that is trying to benefit from alleged inflated profit that Sino Grandness is reporting.

The consequences to TTA will be severe, if Sino is a fake. Not only it has to write off the $30m in buying up Sino shares. It also have to reverse the share of Sino profit that it has recognised.

Prayudh's family has 20% stake in TTA. The other shareholders includes provident funds, Insurance companies etc.
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