Sino Grandness

(27-07-2015, 05:00 PM)pubster Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 12:52 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 08:14 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

It is clear from your post that you are of the view that the Thai investors have been fooled by Sino.

The questions you raised -- why is the RMB 420m cash not used to pay off the bonds, must have been asked by the Thais.

Garden Fresh has paid IPO professionals RMB 20.3m (RMB 8.5m in 1Q 2015). You are assuming the Thai investors have not bothered to find out the progress of IPO.

Why did the Thais lock up the bulk of Sino shares for 10 years, why did Prayudh become Sino's honorary chairmen, and why did TTA treat Sino as an associated company.

The "red flags" you have raised are obvious questions which have been circulating for a long while.

As mentioned by Behappyalways, since you have so much confidence of the Thai investor and believed they had done their due diligence, you might be better off investing directly in the Thai company.

Just keep repeatedly seeing the justification of because the Thai investor commitment, and they must had did their due diligence, so everything must be real... Its is getting a little stale.

Just commenting after reading so many of the exchanges between the different members. Not putting down on this stock

Not vested.

P.S. Nobody is infallible. Not even good investors like Buffett

Your echoing Behappyalways' point that if one has confidence in Thai investors doing due diligence, one is better off investing in Thai company is irrational.

Those who invest in Sino Grandness do so on the basis that the company has a bright future in F& B business. Why should they consider investing in TTA whose main business is not in F&B?

I know you are going to ask what does TTA know about F&B. The answer is that TTA is relying on PM Group, which is also owned by Prayudh and is involved in beverage business in partnership with Nestle.

You have said that it is getting stale in hearing that Thai investors must have done due diligence. To me, it is tiring to hear constant doubts about Sino Grandness without doubters providing the basis.

Doubts about Sino are not new and they intensified in Oct 2014 by Newman9. Do you think the Thai investors had ignored such doubts before investing in Sino, locking up more than half of Sino shares for 10 years, and treating Sino as an associated company of TTA?

(27-07-2015, 09:29 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 05:00 PM)pubster Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 12:52 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 08:14 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

It is clear from your post that you are of the view that the Thai investors have been fooled by Sino.

The questions you raised -- why is the RMB 420m cash not used to pay off the bonds, must have been asked by the Thais.

Garden Fresh has paid IPO professionals RMB 20.3m (RMB 8.5m in 1Q 2015). You are assuming the Thai investors have not bothered to find out the progress of IPO.

Why did the Thais lock up the bulk of Sino shares for 10 years, why did Prayudh become Sino's honorary chairmen, and why did TTA treat Sino as an associated company.

The "red flags" you have raised are obvious questions which have been circulating for a long while.

As mentioned by Behappyalways, since you have so much confidence of the Thai investor and believed they had done their due diligence, you might be better off investing directly in the Thai company.

Just keep repeatedly seeing the justification of because the Thai investor commitment, and they must had did their due diligence, so everything must be real... Its is getting a little stale.

Just commenting after reading so many of the exchanges between the different members. Not putting down on this stock

Not vested.

P.S. Nobody is infallible. Not even good investors like Buffett

Your echoing Behappyalways' point that if one has confidence in Thai investors doing due diligence, one is better off investing in Thai company is irrational.

Those who invest in Sino Grandness do so on the basis that the company has a bright future in F& B business. Why should they consider investing in TTA whose main business is not in F&B?

I know you are going to ask what does TTA know about F&B. The answer is that TTA is relying on PM Group, which is also owned by Prayudh and is involved in beverage business in partnership with Nestle.

You have said that it is getting stale in hearing that Thai investors must have done due diligence. To me, it is tiring to hear constant doubts about Sino Grandness without doubters providing the basis.

Doubts about Sino are not new and they intensified in Oct 2014 by Newman9. Do you think the Thai investors had ignored such doubts before investing in Sino, locking up more than half of Sino shares for 10 years, and treating Sino as an associated company of TTA?

If one thinks that because of the Thai investor commitment (the Thais should had done their due diligence before committing), therefore assess this company to be a legitimate bet, then it is fine for those who are vested since they think it is a good enough reason.

It is just that not all people have such faith to hold a stock because of a certain reputable investor/businessman is also invested in it. Some people prefer to look at all aspects rather than just who is onboard.

There are valid concerns being raised and discussed in this thread. That's all I wanted to say.

I rest my case. Good luck to all who is vested.


Not vested.


P.S. Check out the news on Japan NTT DoCoMo(predominant mobile phone operator in Japan) investment in India TATA teleservices. There is time where even experienced company get their bets wrong even though it is supposed to be their expertise industry. Now they are making a painful exit... a real painful one :p

If u buy , have faith.

If u didnt buy, keep quiet.

If u short, just say.

If u think u have nothing better to do , sleep


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Lol. Now those not vested are not allowed to air their views.

Noted. Keeping my mouth shut.

Lol. Now those not vested had shut their mouth.

Hence. Keeping their eyes close for the night. [emoji8]


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(28-07-2015, 12:24 AM)pubster Wrote: Lol. Now those not vested are not allowed to air their views.

Noted. Keeping my mouth shut.

No, I think it is fine for those not vested to give their views as long as there is a basis. :0)

Continued delays in delivering the promises made by management is making ppl wonder if there's any difficulty in making redemptions for the CBs and for submission of IPO.

True, a lot of biz development plans are in place and underway, but it only reflects the management's future plans at best now. However, such preliminary planning efforts does not necessarily lead to actual biz results, and prudent investors normally will stand aside until they see management delivering more on their promises and living up to the high expectations that the Thais have of them. It could be interpreted by some as the management is desperate to keep the hopes of IPO alive for as long as possible.

The last announcement did not explicitly say that the bond holders chose to extend as a sign of their continued confidence in the company, hence, outsiders can also interpret this announcement as cb holders have no choice but to extend, as mgt seems to be having difficulty redeeming the cbs.

But then again, no one really knows what's happening actually, why the delay and why the lack of clarification behind the delay, and no explanation of the impact of the delays, is making people really doubt that the company is doing and coping well internally.

Sino Grandness is so interesting. It should trade very similarily to a bond now except that instead of converging to par, it converges to 0 within the next 2 weeks. The only reprieve the equity holders have is a filling with material information.

(28-07-2015, 12:28 AM)leeeta Wrote:

(28-07-2015, 12:24 AM)pubster Wrote: Lol. Now those not vested are not allowed to air their views.

Noted. Keeping my mouth shut.

No, I think it is fine for those not vested to give their views as long as there is a basis. :0)

Yes, VB is open for all, vested, not vested, and interested, as long as porting guide obeyed.

Thanks

Regards
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