Sino Grandness

Be careful of Market Phases - accumulation or distribution?
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(25-07-2015, 01:56 PM)Behappyalways Wrote: Just to extend the bond redemption, do you know how much interest payment the company got to pay?

How many loquat drinks the company got to sell to cover the extra interest payments?

Unless the company is being set up for 'fun' else it should be profit maximising.

Why is the company not paying off?

I am amazed with people who continues to build castles in the air.

Respect your money and your money will respect you and stay in your pocket.

Not vested

If your assertion that Sino Grandness "is being set up for 'fun'" rest on an important assumption that the Thai investors walked into the trap blindly.

As has been pointed out before, TTA has treated Sino Grandenss has an associated company, and it will have to recognise a portion of Sino's loss if Sino is indeed a sham.

haha, both sides have their fair points. But if the pro-buyers only key point/stand is based on the buying decision, then i think it is not a valid enough thesis to have a substantial stake in Sino grandness.

Really dont understand why they keep extending the bond payments. Is 15% interest really that cheap?

Investors who have a long position in Sino should ask themselves some questions.

Why did Prayudh have to be so public with his confidence in Sino Grandness ? Appearance on CNBC, Honorary Chairman.

Who is he trying to display the confidence to ? And why is it important for the other party to know that Sino Grandness has the backing of Prayudh ?

Who is this other party/parties and why did they lost confidence in Sino Grandness ? Why was it important for them to be confident of Sino Grandness ?

Only when those questions are answered then can investors understand the significance of his investment.

(02-07-2015, 11:17 AM)fattboy Wrote: hmm, good point , im a newbie seeking enlightenment too.

i think the news that Sino Grandness's IPO is in progress and Huang's July Time frame has been made known to the public since Ice Age.

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Sino_Gra...leID=29544

The company first made an announcement 2 years ago on 1st July 2013 of the proposed listing of Garden Fresh.

Coming to the end of his July time frame, there is still no submission by the firm as of last friday:
http://www.hkexnews.hk/APP/SEHKAPPMainIndex.htm

(23-07-2015, 10:13 AM)fattboy Wrote: There it goes again... Have i guys read the annoucment??? Corporate Thriller

What are they implying ?

This notification is different from the one made on 26th June where the CB1 holder notified the company of the intention to extend the bond's maturity date before the deadline of 30th June 2015 was up.

The latest announcement was the company is in a discussion with both CB1 and 2 holders in relation to the extension of the bond's maturity at 25 July 2015. Who was the one that initiated the extension discussion this round?

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Sino%20G...eID=361133

(26-04-2015, 06:44 PM)Young Investor Wrote: Spectcuvestor

Thank you. I was at the AGM too.
Sino CEO said he planned to redeem all convertible bonds because Sino now has the money to do so; but bondholders want to extend their bonds because they want to have stakes in listed Garden Fresh.

Didn’t the CEO said in the agm that he planned to redeem all the convertible bonds or perhaps the bondholders wanted to extend their bonds?

If the bondholders had strong faith in Garden Fresh, the agreement in the convertible bond actually allows them to convert even without any filing or extension by Sino Grandness. Of course, doing so will result in a loss of protection as a debt holder who is only subordinated to trade debtor and other claims (the bank loans were guaranteed by another subsidiary as negative pledge prevents garden fresh from raising senior or secured debt). However, if the perceived potential reward is huge and the company wants to redeem the bonds, why not? In any case, the risk-reward for the bondholders is very different from that of the shareholders of sino grandness.

http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Proposed...eID=101604

Now that the 25th July deadline has passed, the company will have to pay within the next 13 days to avoid a default (unless the bondholder agreed to an extension or the bondholder was the one that initiated the discussion). We can only wait for more announcement, which the company should do asap to assure the shareholder.

The deadline of the binary event has continued to be pushed further as has the A1 filing of garden fresh.

(not vested)

In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

(27-07-2015, 08:14 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

It is clear from your post that you are of the view that the Thai investors have been fooled by Sino.

The questions you raised -- why is the RMB 420m cash not used to pay off the bonds, must have been asked by the Thais.

Garden Fresh has paid IPO professionals RMB 20.3m (RMB 8.5m in 1Q 2015). You are assuming the Thai investors have not bothered to find out the progress of IPO.

Why did the Thais lock up the bulk of Sino shares for 10 years, why did Prayudh become Sino's honorary chairmen, and why did TTA treat Sino as an associated company.

The "red flags" you have raised are obvious questions which have been circulating for a long while.

To partly answer Behappyalways, the company needs the CB holders' support even during IPO as association of strong names with the company is viewed as a positive for IPO and can get better valuations. Whatever has happened so far becomes immaterial now as the game changes dramatically with the new agreement in place. What's in that agreement will determine the way SinoG goes. The company has so far been very vague in its announcements but cannot be any more. I was a bit disappointed with the way the company announced the "Potential extension" pending some 'Legal documentation". If the agreement has already been reached which ideally should have been as the due date is already over, the company should at least briefly state the points agreed to between the company & CB holders. By not letting out any information they are doing more harm than good! At the end of the day only the minority shareholders suffer.

(27-07-2015, 12:52 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 08:14 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

It is clear from your post that you are of the view that the Thai investors have been fooled by Sino.

The questions you raised -- why is the RMB 420m cash not used to pay off the bonds, must have been asked by the Thais.

Garden Fresh has paid IPO professionals RMB 20.3m (RMB 8.5m in 1Q 2015). You are assuming the Thai investors have not bothered to find out the progress of IPO.

Why did the Thais lock up the bulk of Sino shares for 10 years, why did Prayudh become Sino's honorary chairmen, and why did TTA treat Sino as an associated company.

The "red flags" you have raised are obvious questions which have been circulating for a long while.

As mentioned by Behappyalways, since you have so much confidence of the Thai investor and believed they had done their due diligence, you might be better off investing directly in the Thai company.

Just keep repeatedly seeing the justification of because the Thai investor commitment, and they must had did their due diligence, so everything must be real... Its is getting a little stale.

Just commenting after reading so many of the exchanges between the different members. Not putting down on this stock

Not vested.

P.S. Nobody is infallible. Not even good investors like Buffett

(27-07-2015, 05:00 PM)pubster Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 12:52 PM)leeeta Wrote:

(27-07-2015, 08:14 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: In their 1Q2015 result, the balance sheet stated that the group has RMB420m. Why is the money 'sitting' in the bank and not used to pay off the bond. The interest payment on bond extension is not cheap. The company has ample time(the due dates of the bonds are known) and funds to redeem the bonds. That's why I said the company is not profit maximising but for FUN.

Theoretically the group has RMB420m as of 31 Mar 2015. THEORETICALLY........

As for the thai investor. Some investors based their faith on the thai investor. My suggestion is to invest in the thai company rather than Sino Grandness. Most probably you get to keep your shirt at the end of the fiasco......

Not vested

It is clear from your post that you are of the view that the Thai investors have been fooled by Sino.

The questions you raised -- why is the RMB 420m cash not used to pay off the bonds, must have been asked by the Thais.

Garden Fresh has paid IPO professionals RMB 20.3m (RMB 8.5m in 1Q 2015). You are assuming the Thai investors have not bothered to find out the progress of IPO.

Why did the Thais lock up the bulk of Sino shares for 10 years, why did Prayudh become Sino's honorary chairmen, and why did TTA treat Sino as an associated company.

The "red flags" you have raised are obvious questions which have been circulating for a long while.

As mentioned by Behappyalways, since you have so much confidence of the Thai investor and believed they had done their due diligence, you might be better off investing directly in the Thai company.

Just keep repeatedly seeing the justification of because the Thai investor commitment, and they must had did their due diligence, so everything must be real... Its is getting a little stale.

Just commenting after reading so many of the exchanges between the different members. Not putting down on this stock

Not vested.

P.S. Nobody is infallible. Not even good investors like Buffett

In TSE , trade TTA in thai baht ?