Sino Grandness

(30-06-2015, 10:30 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: Just to add on as a general GG rule - hard work in investments should be used in uncovering the ones that will yield stable and growing returns.

It is never my belief to work hard to justify for mgt. For productive stable investments, mgt should justify to shareholders via various avenues - the easy and clear ones are healthy cashflows and growing dividend streams. Both these streams will translate into steadily appreciating share prices over time...

SG simply doesn't fit my investment criteria and hence my great concerns over all the hardwork put in by the experts here.

No Vested Interests
GG

(30-06-2015, 09:59 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: This company is beyond me. Share price clearly tells a confusing story.

With little yield and being a chinese consumer play, I have my own reservations.

I have been always confused by the ongoing saga of this co.

I really have no knowledge and am merely expressing my concerns as I have always been all along.

Rest be assured I have not much time to discuss on this stock except to be a concern busybody.

Sorry if I have raised any alarm bells.

By now if buddies dunno I am always armed with my conspiracy theories then please be alert that I am always highly skeptical of any corporate moves until I am convinced.

GG

From your quote :

" I really have no knowledge and am merely expressing my concerns as I have always been all along. Rest be assured I have not much time to discuss on this stock except to be a concern busybody. "




Bro , please do not say you are just a busybody with no knowledge. We all know this. And thanks for sharing with us your derivation of a healthy company , via screening of the Cash Flow & Dividend.

i think the only thing that the people is trying to promote here is theoretical sharing and data discussion, all this is technical education for the good of all readers. Readers are not being held at gun-sight and being force to digest.

Also the TIMING of your comment came just at the right time, as i too have great concern over your "hardwork" as well. Thanks for sharing with us your criteria of assessment and agendas.








Conspiracy Theories are available all over the book-shelf , im a fan of Tom Clancy & Sidney Sheldon.

Greengiraffe

I thought you would have been more careful after Forummers found your unsubstantiated reference to China Sunsine unacceptable.


On Nov 6 14, you wrote that "If co [you were referring to China Sunsine Chemical] turns into one of the common poison "S Chips" then may be PER zero...

Your statement drew the following response from Bluechipfan: 
"I don't consider this a responsible statement from a senior and season member. While we appreciate cautionary views from time to time, such views have to be made based on facts. Granted you may say this is your opinion but you are responding directly to another person's view on Sunsine. Therefore, you cannot say this is just a general cautionary view on S chips and did not refer directly to Sunsine. Don't forget CMHP is also a S chip and if I am not wrong, you are also vested?"

Specuvestor also wrote:
"I have to agree with bluechipfan that we do need to substantiate one liners with ABSOLUTE implications for example "buy now before it's too late". Would be different if GG provides some basis or had provided basis previously in the thread which we missed. 

OTOH GG has substantiated sufficiently why he is in the other S-chip. We just have to read before jumping to conclusion."




http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-2006-page-48.html

Let's refocus on company related topic.

I agree we should make substantiated posts, but sharing of personal experiences/opinions are also welcomed. Making accusations without reasonable ground are prohibited.

I have taken GG posts as sharing of experience, which may or may not be applicable to this company. Rebuttals are allowed, as long as no personal attack

No moderation needed so far

Regards
Moderator

(30-06-2015, 09:59 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: This company is beyond me. Share price clearly tells a confusing story.

With little yield and being a chinese consumer play, I have my own reservations.

I have been always confused by the ongoing saga of this co.

I really have no knowledge and am merely expressing my concerns as I have always been all along.

Rest be assured I have not much time to discuss on this stock except to be a concern busybody.

Sorry if I have raised any alarm bells.

By now if buddies dunno I am always armed with my conspiracy theories then please be alert that I am always highly skeptical of any corporate moves until I am convinced.

GG

Hi GG

Thanks for your reply.
I am a newbie in this thread and seeking guidance from seniors like yourself.
Would be good always if you share your concerns with fundamental reasons rather than a confusing one liners which is not helpful to newbies like myself so that we all can learn together.

Thank you
oldman9

(01-07-2015, 10:17 AM)Oldman9 Wrote:

(30-06-2015, 09:59 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: This company is beyond me. Share price clearly tells a confusing story.

With little yield and being a chinese consumer play, I have my own reservations.

I have been always confused by the ongoing saga of this co.

I really have no knowledge and am merely expressing my concerns as I have always been all along.

Rest be assured I have not much time to discuss on this stock except to be a concern busybody.

Sorry if I have raised any alarm bells.

By now if buddies dunno I am always armed with my conspiracy theories then please be alert that I am always highly skeptical of any corporate moves until I am convinced.

GG

Hi GG

Thanks for your reply.
I am a newbie in this thread and seeking guidance from seniors like yourself.
Would be good always if you share your concerns with fundamental reasons rather than a confusing one liners which is not helpful to newbies like myself so that we all can learn together.

Thank you
oldman9

Like I say, SG is fundamentally beyond me and hence my gut feel tells me to raise the red flag... simple businesses should not be so complicated..

(01-07-2015, 11:40 AM)greengiraffe Wrote:

(01-07-2015, 10:17 AM)Oldman9 Wrote:

(30-06-2015, 09:59 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: This company is beyond me. Share price clearly tells a confusing story.

With little yield and being a chinese consumer play, I have my own reservations.

I have been always confused by the ongoing saga of this co.

I really have no knowledge and am merely expressing my concerns as I have always been all along.

Rest be assured I have not much time to discuss on this stock except to be a concern busybody.

Sorry if I have raised any alarm bells.

By now if buddies dunno I am always armed with my conspiracy theories then please be alert that I am always highly skeptical of any corporate moves until I am convinced.

GG

Hi GG

Thanks for your reply.
I am a newbie in this thread and seeking guidance from seniors like yourself.
Would be good always if you share your concerns with fundamental reasons rather than a confusing one liners which is not helpful to newbies like myself so that we all can learn together.

Thank you
oldman9

Like I say, SG is fundamentally beyond me and hence my gut feel tells me to raise the red flag... simple businesses should not be so complicated..

Hi GG

Thanks. Oldman here thinks it is perfectly fine to raise red flags. It would be good for all to know what these red flags if any but the way you raise your red flags are peppered with sarcasm of the counter perhaps because of your bad past experience with s -chips. I think this is the issue here.

If business is too complicated more reason for you to refrain from giving such statements unless you have evidence or data to proof otherwise. Just a newbie oldman advice nia.

thanks
oldman9

I feel the extension simply leaves us none the wiser. 2 important issues that this binary event was meant to reveal are still not resolved as a result of the extension.

1. Does the company really have the cash and cash-flow?

2. Does the company have any genuine intention to IPO? (Presumably IF the Newman9 allegations are valid, it wouldn't dare to given the criminal liability? Then again you never know - history has shown us s-chips like China Gaoxian successfully achieving a dual listing in South Korea but then not long after the dual listing it was suspended and proven to be a fraud. So even a successful IPO is not a full-proof thing.)

Because of the extension, there is still no clear answer to these 2 questions.

Company could have told bondholders 'give us more time, we are still preparing to IPO, if you redeem your shares now you will lose out.' Come 25th July, it is perfectly possible that they could tow the same line and get it further extended. Of course if they keep doing that there will come a time where patience and limits are truly tested, and push comes to shove, and then perhaps only then will we truly know.

I think the best scenario for shareholders would be if come July 25th, company chooses to pay back bondholders for most of the bonds, and only allows them to convert a small%. This retains some institutional ownership, reduces dilution, but most importantly, proves that they have the cash to pay back. Cash doesn't lie - if they can pay back that few hundred million, their business is probably real. But until and unless that happens, we cannot know for sure.

Personally I've recently been to Sichuan, Zhejiang, Fujian and Shanghai and couldn't find 鲜绿园 being sold in any of the supermarkets or small convenience stores. I had better luck in Shenzhen, where I found it in quite a few major supermarkets and many 7 Eleven stores. But then again, Shenzhen is supposed to be their home-ground so you would expect that. I would have thought that for a juice brand supposedly achieving their sales volume, their products would have been more widely found outside of Shenzhen. Instead, I found it much easier to find their major competitor of similar reported sales volume - 纯果乐 - which I believe is a collaboration between Tingyi and Pepsi Cola. It's everywhere.

Anyway, what do I know? Just sharing my thoughts on the company and experience in China. Make of it what you will. Personally I feel the risk is too high and that there is too much uncertainty. But to all who decide to take the risk, good luck to you.

(01-07-2015, 01:47 PM)cracker Wrote: I feel the extension simply leaves us none the wiser. 2 important issues that this binary event was meant to reveal are still not resolved as a result of the extension.

1. Does the company really have the cash and cash-flow?

2. Does the company have any genuine intention to IPO? (Presumably IF the Newman9 allegations are valid, it wouldn't dare to given the criminal liability? Then again you never know - history has shown us s-chips like China Gaoxian successfully achieving a dual listing in South Korea but then not long after the dual listing it was suspended and proven to be a fraud. So even a successful IPO is not a full-proof thing.)

Because of the extension, there is still no clear answer to these 2 questions.

Company could have told bondholders 'give us more time, we are still preparing to IPO, if you redeem your shares now you will lose out.' Come 25th July, it is perfectly possible that they could tow the same line and get it further extended. Of course if they keep doing that there will come a time where patience and limits are truly tested, and push comes to shove, and then perhaps only then will we truly know.

I think the best scenario for shareholders would be if come July 25th, company chooses to pay back bondholders for most of the bonds, and only allows them to convert a small%. This retains some institutional ownership, reduces dilution, but most importantly, proves that they have the cash to pay back. Cash doesn't lie - if they can pay back that few hundred million, their business is probably real. But until and unless that happens, we cannot know for sure.

Personally I've recently been to Sichuan, Zhejiang, Fujian and Shanghai and couldn't find 鲜绿园 being sold in any of the supermarkets or small convenience stores. I had better luck in Shenzhen, where I found it in quite a few major supermarkets and many 7 Eleven stores. But then again, Shenzhen is supposed to be their home-ground so you would expect that. I would have thought that for a juice brand supposedly achieving their sales volume, their products would have been more widely found outside of Shenzhen. Instead, I found it much easier to find their major competitor of similar reported sales volume - 纯果乐 - which I believe is a collaboration between Tingyi and Pepsi Cola. It's everywhere.

Anyway, what do I know? Just sharing my thoughts on the company and experience in China. Make of it what you will. Personally I feel the risk is too high and that there is too much uncertainty. But to all who decide to take the risk, good luck to you.

hi , did you manage to find Loquat & Canned Food from Pepsi Cola ?

I reckon points have been made loud and clear, on GG's sharing. Let's move on.

I have removed few of them. Let's refocus on company topic.

Thank

Regards
Moderator

Thanks CF. I shall ban myself on this thread.

GG

(01-07-2015, 02:37 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: I reckon points have been made loud and clear, on GG's sharing. Let's move on.

I have removed few of them. Let's refocus on company topic.

Thank

Regards
Moderator